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Subject: How complex? rss

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Steven
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
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Hello all. I see the Pledge Manger for this is still open and unless I have horrible luck, it will still be open long enough for me to get a few opinions. I have not seen the rulebook, but Rhado mentioned that it is 50 pages long and I wonder if it will be overwhelming to learn. So based on that:


-How complex of a game is this going to be?
-How long do you think it would take the average person to learn how to play the game?
-Will this be a game that will require you to be constant looking things up?

Thanks for any help and if you can think of anything else that I should consider, please let me know.
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Remi Bureau
Canada
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I think your previous experience with dungeon crawlers will define how complex the game will be to you.

I haven't played the game yet, but have read the rules extensively, and it seems like the learning curve for the owner is a bit steep, but I think it will be relatively simple to show to new players. As long as 1 player knows all the rules, others for the first few games only need to know how to play their hero, and the basic turn sequence. Then, as you resolve events and enemy activations, you can explain as you go.

So, if your reference is most Euro games, then yes, very complex game. If you're familiar with various dungeon crawlers, I don't foresee any major problems.

For what it's worth, I intend to make a full serie of videos about the rules for S&S.
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Simone Romano
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Hi,

From what I've seen from last Essen demos, after 30 minutes or so,
Each person in the party is able to play the game without problems.
By the way you can download the reference sheet from here, it includes almost all necessary rules, the rest of the manual represents a deep explanation of each single rule and situation.
So at the end of the day, I'm pretty sure you will use the reference for the first couple of quests and then you will proceed alone

Thanks
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Ricky W
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I can second RemiBureau's comment. If one person knows the rules he/she can smoothly introduce them to others while playing.

Simone Romano wrote:
So at the end of the day, I'm pretty sure you will use the reference for the first couple of quests and then you will proceed alone

Well, you will have to keep the reference sheet within reach, because you definitely will need the chart for conditions, since there are quite a few and they all have different mechanics and different effects when on characters or on enemies.

 
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It's absolutely right that it depends on the knowledge of different games you already have. That's true for every game and I see this very often as I play with different people. The ones playing several times every week learn a new game "in a heartbeat". The ones playing only 3 times a year have trouble to understand the icons in Port Royale.

There is a second thing you should consider. For most people I know it seems true that only one person has to know all rules in detail in this game but I also know a few people where this wouldn't work. In these groups we have to teach everyone all details before we start to play. Obviously this takes much longer.

In the end: If you have people that are playing games regularly and they are fine not knowing every detail it should be possible to start the game within ~45 minutes (from what was shown at Essen).
 
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jérémy royaux
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it's far more complex than "basic" dungeon crawlers like Dungeon & Dragons Board Games but the rules are not very complicated imo.
Once you learned the rules correctly, it's going to flow very easily.
Some games are very complex to play even if you know the rules, this is not one of them imo
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Steven
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Thanks for all the reply's everyone. When it comes to complex games, I do not think I have many, if any. Which means that this would likely be stepping out of my comfort zone a bit. The only game we have had any trouble learning so far was BSG (8 years ago when we first got into the hobby), but that only seemed complex at first glance and when I actually took the time to look at it, it was very simple.

As far as my dungeon crawl experience, I am pretty limited as well. The only games that we own that might fall into that category are Mice and Mystics, Black Plague, The Others, Conan, and Mansions of Madness. By listening to some reply's, all of these are probably on the easy side of learning. Then again they were not difficult for us to learn either. So maybe the step up will be fine. I know we plan on buying Kingdom Death because it fascinates us and maybe that is even more complex (not sure). That said, typically I game with just my wife and every now and then with some friends who also like board games, but this would for sure be most often a 2 person endeavor.
 
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You may call me
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Burlington
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Best you can do is go to the Kickstarter page, scroll down to the Gameplay section and download the beta rulebook. Have a read. This is definitely a step up from Black Plague and Mansions of Madness (2nd ed). Both those games are quite streamlined, this is not. But for that reason, it can be a very rich and rewarding experience. Only you can decide if it's right for you and your group. Watch the gameplay videos (I recommend the this one: http://boardgamegeek.com/video/82643/sword-sorcery/sword-sor...), read the rulebook and make your call.

 
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Steven
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I will take a look at the video. I have only watched Rhados so far. Also thanks for the link to the beta rulebook. I had tried to download one from the update section but the link was expired. I had not noticed this other one.
 
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Karl
Austria
Salzburg
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I think BSG is a very good comparision to this one. S&S probably will also seem a bit too much at first glance, but once you played one mission it will flow easily. If Galaxy Defenders (S&S's older brother) is any indication it was like read the reference sheet and know 90% of rules for me. The learning was the rest of the 10% that are a bit hidden in the book. So if at least one player knows the game its usually pretty fast to start as he can cover that 10% when needed.
 
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