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Subject: What makes it different from other Dungeon Crawlers on the market? rss

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Luka Kovač Plavi
Croatia
Našice
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Howdy, i've been in essen and my friend got me interested in S&S.
I however have Dungeon Saga (most generic DC I got I guess, but still fun to play with new gamers), Claustrophobia (cute for 1v1), Omega Protocol (not played yet), Myth (not played yet) and Conan on the way.

What makes S&S in your opinion different from those titles that is worth the pledge amount?
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Remi Bureau
Canada
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It's hard to provide a complete answer as the game isn't available yet (and wasn't at GenCon), but from what we know, and compared to the other dungeon crawlers I've played, it's the one that will give you the most RPG feel. The scenario events and Book of Secrets decisions moments I think involve you in the game in a way that others don't.

Gameplay wise, it shares a lot with their other game, Galaxy Defenders, but I think how they manage the number of actions/skills you can use in a given term will proove to be more enjoyable in S&S.

The 3 "systems" for using skills in the games I have (Descent, Myth and soon S&S) each have their own way of limiting what you can do each turn.

Being a full coop with hidden info (from all players, not between players) and without player elimination is a pretty sweet package in my mind.

If you're unsure about the game, and your friend already has the KS version coming, you should have a better feel for the game soon, hopefully!
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Pako FuNkyBoY
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Castelldefels
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Whay I love of this game, a part from that has been said is the AI of the enemies. Very complete. The have different weapons and behavior, and can gain random bonuses.
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Remi Bureau
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funkyboy wrote:
Whay I love of this game, a part from that has been said is the AI of the enemies. Very complete. The have different weapons and behavior, and can gain random bonuses.


Right, I almost forgot that some enemies have a random additionnal skill when revealed, and they can level up by defeating a hero, which grants them anotyer skill as well... So much stuff happening in this game!
 
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You may call me
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Burlington
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Things that make this game standout based on previews:

1 - uniqueness of each character class and customization possibilities;
2 - Storybook with Campaign with some elements dependent on the customization of your character (alignment) that may lead to some minor differences from scenario to scenario;
3 - Enemy AI is really great (based on my experience with the game this system is built on, Galaxy Defenders);
4 - Mechanics: maybe not each individual mechanic itself but the implementation of it all together. You normally roll dice to attack, however based on your equipment, character class abilities, alignment abilities, etc you have many different effects that you can trigger or situations that can occur that add variability and excitement to each roll;
5 - no player elimination with the implementation of Ghost form;
6 - Campaign system with side quests;
7 - Levelling up characters;
8 - Above all, I think the uniqueness comes in packaging all the above together in one game with excellent quality components and minis.
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C M
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It's one of the latest attempts at a dungeon crawl with no DM/Overlord. It's a category of game that has a tendency to be less than successful. Myth is the only one on your list also doing it. If you have the 2nd edition of it you might be alright, I don't think I'd touch the first edition though. We don't really know id S&S is actually going to be any good at it yet, but kickstarter is all about wishful thinking.
 
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gary gee
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well,anyone who has got or played Galaxy Defenders..knows how good the game sytem is!!..as this game uses an enhanced version of that sytem..and it was a great experience playing solo as well as with others.a great AI built into the game
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noah caldwell
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galt
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One dosent have to look to far from there excellent game galaxy defenders .. I have yet to find a co/op game that matches it's feel , desgine and story line ! So I'm only expecting great things from s and s ... just a side note I've backed all the galaxy pledges at the highest level !! And I had no doubt in not going all in on s and s!
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Joshua Nash
United States
Manor
Texas
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The problem with comparing S&S to Galaxy Defenders is that it pushes away the people that found GD boring.

I really wanted to like GD but I found the combat dull and the leveling up system awkward and overly random.
 
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Skaak
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JPN38 wrote:
I really wanted to like GD but I found the combat dull and the leveling up system awkward and overly random.


Combat is very similar in S&S to GD, with a few exceptions:

* Total defense dice are capped based on equipment (for heroes) or type of enemy (for enemies). This means that the power level of your hero's equipment vs. the enemies matters a lot more (in GD everything was basically an equal threat because the way the math scaled it was relatively rare to land more than 1-2 hits on anything, regardless of power level).

* There are non-dice-reliant methods for both dealing and preventing damage (varies depending on equipment/enemy). This adds a little bit of rock-paper-scissors type matchups (enemies/weapons that ignore armor vs. enemies with lots of blue dice available)

* There are more decisions to make post-roll; in GD you chose whether to use tactics/skills, but the choices were usually pretty obvious and if you rolled a BOLT that always meant you triggered your BOLT effect (with extra bolts typically being worthless). S&S, on the other hand, has multiple types of triggered abilities for weapons, skills, etc. based on your roll and all of them are optional (so for instance if you roll two BOLTs you can activate two one-BOLT effects, or a single two-BOLT effect; and if you additionally roll a MAGIC icon, you potentially have other choices to make, too).

Leveling up is very different from GD. In GD, you rolled three red dice after a round where you killed at least one enemy, so whether you leveled up was essentially random (and increasingly hard to do as you approached high levels). S&S uses a currency approach to leveling, however, via Soul Points. As you kill enemies, you gain Soul Points (number usually depends on the power level of the enemy). You can use them to level your heroes (with the cost of leveling being your target level squared; 2*2 = 4, 3*3 = 9, etc.), to bring Ghost heroes back into the game, and to supercharge your equipment. Additionally, you can only level up a hero if all other heroes are the same level or higher (so unlike in GD, where you can randomly have one agent who is very high level and a few agents who are stuck at very low levels, you will always have an evenly leveled playing field).

(Please note that I haven't had a chance to read recent versions of the rulebook, so they may have changed things; that's how they worked at the time of the Kickstarter, though.)
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Joshua Nash
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Wow, great information! Thanks much for this.

The S&S changes are intriguing.
 
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gary gee
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JPN38 wrote:
The problem with comparing S&S to Galaxy Defenders is that it pushes away the people that found GD boring.

I really wanted to like GD but I found the combat dull and the leveling up system awkward and overly random.
i agree that the gameplay could have been better Joshua.but I think that was mainly because of the very similar enemy types...this has got a completely different lot of enemies very different etc..I think this will make a great difference to things.i think the actual game mechanics [especially now they are "enhanced"].are much better suited to this type of game!
I still enjoy GD but the very low diversity of aliens/monsters let it down.
 
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Dom Hiob
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tootz wrote:
JPN38 wrote:
The problem with comparing S&S to Galaxy Defenders is that it pushes away the people that found GD boring.

I really wanted to like GD but I found the combat dull and the leveling up system awkward and overly random.
i agree that the gameplay could have been better Joshua.but I think that was mainly because of the very similar enemy types...this has got a completely different lot of enemies very different etc..I think this will make a great difference to things.i think the actual game mechanics [especially now they are "enhanced"].are much better suited to this type of game!
I still enjoy GD but the very low diversity of aliens/monsters let it down.


Interesting. I always felt that GD had some of the most differentiated monsters/enemies/aliens in any game. It's one of the few games where I distinctly remember how each behaves (like, a Xeno-Alpha is a whole different thing than a Spine-Critter and both are totally different from an Aracnos or a Xeno-Grey). Unless you're talking about the total number of different aliens in the base game? (Xeno Alpha, Beta, Grey, Beast, Spine Critter, Aracnos, Nexus) which would sit at 7 (if not accounting for different color versions) and at 13 (?) if you count greens and blues separately.
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gary gee
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DomHiob wrote:
tootz wrote:
JPN38 wrote:
The problem with comparing S&S to Galaxy Defenders is that it pushes away the people that found GD boring.

I really wanted to like GD but I found the combat dull and the leveling up system awkward and overly random.
i agree that the gameplay could have been better Joshua.but I think that was mainly because of the very similar enemy types...this has got a completely different lot of enemies very different etc..I think this will make a great difference to things.i think the actual game mechanics [especially now they are "enhanced"].are much better suited to this type of game!
I still enjoy GD but the very low diversity of aliens/monsters let it down.


Interesting. I always felt that GD had some of the most differentiated monsters/enemies/aliens in any game. It's one of the few games where I distinctly remember how each behaves (like, a Xeno-Alpha is a whole different thing than a Spine-Critter and both are totally different from an Aracnos or a Xeno-Grey). Unless you're talking about the total number of different aliens in the base game? (Xeno Alpha, Beta, Grey, Beast, Spine Critter, Aracnos, Nexus) which would sit at 7 (if not accounting for different color versions) and at 13 (?) if you count greens and blues separately.
yes, but some people me included still get the feeling they are all too similar..not different enough..just my thoughts.as I said its a top game but that's the flaw I found in the game..the mechanics etc are brilliant..and as I said earlier,with the game mechanics being enhanced and used in this game with the very diverse world its set in then it will be great.for the solo and multi play
 
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You may call me
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I think that may be the first time that I've seen a complaint about GD's alien AI. Like was said above, I think it's one of the most unique and interesting AIs I've seen yet. I'd be interested in hearing about a game that does it better.
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Paul Newsham
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The line of sight rules aren't incomprehensibly awful
 
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Skaak
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JPN38 wrote:
Wow, great information! Thanks much for this.

The S&S changes are intriguing.


If you would like more in that vein, try Sword & Sorcery from the perspective of a defender of the galaxy.
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Joshua Nash
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Skaak wrote:
JPN38 wrote:
Wow, great information! Thanks much for this.

The S&S changes are intriguing.


If you would like more in that vein, try Sword & Sorcery from the perspective of a defender of the galaxy.


Ah, great! Thanks for this.
 
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