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Pandemic Legacy: Season 1» Forums » Rules

Subject: November impossible to beat (SPOILERS) rss

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Konrad G
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As we approached November for the second time, we realized the objectives could not possibly be completed. Not for our faults!

Since we'd already had 6 cities vaccinated and every search completed, we were left with 3 objectives: sabotage military bases, have 3 vaccine stations and cure 3 diseases.

However, we had no military bases at all. Actually, we hadn't actually built too many of them any time. You can't destroy something that doesn't exist, so we would have to build the base first only to destroy it right afterwards.

You need the city card to build the base, and the same card to sabotage. No way you could play both in the same game, right?

To make things worse, the character that can build objects without using city cards had been shredded as the military suspect.

What are you supposed to do in this case? Have we screwed something up (how?), or is it really a hole in the game?
 
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Baker Odom
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Bluffton
South Carolina
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happy_bee wrote:
As we approached November for the second time, we realized the objectives could not possibly be completed. Not for our faults!

Since we'd already had 6 cities vaccinated and every search completed, we were left with 3 objectives: sabotage military bases, have 3 vaccine stations and cure 3 diseases.

However, we had no military bases at all. Actually, we hadn't actually built too many of them any time. You can't destroy something that doesn't exist, so we would have to build the base first only to destroy it right afterwards.

You need the city card to build the base, and the same card to sabotage. No way you could play both in the same game, right?

To make things worse, the character that can build objects without using city cards had been shredded as the military suspect.

What are you supposed to do in this case? Have we screwed something up (how?), or is it really a hole in the game?


No you didn't screw anything up. I never ran across this situation but I did see the potential as we played through the game.

If I had found myself in a similar situation I would have considered any truly impossible objective as completed. I don't know if there's an official ruling on what to do about this though.
 
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Kerstin
Germany
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happy_bee wrote:

You need the city card to build the base, and the same card to sabotage. No way you could play both in the same game, right?


There are a few ways to pick up cards that you discard: e.g. via the Rivals relationship and also the soldier can pick cards back up that have a equipment sticker on them.

You also have some funded events that let you build buildings so maybe put that into the deck (if you have funding).

And there also should be the rule in place at this point that you add a military base at the start of each game, so make sure you are actually doing that.
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Benjamin Goertz
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Colorado
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You can also choose to have a player play as the Operations Expert (if they have not been killed already) which can let you build structures without needing the city card.

We are about to run into this same issue in November so we had to figure out how to deal with it as well.
 
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Anthony Davies
United States
Newberg
Or
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Another option is to build the military base, then use the equip action to add a C4 equipment sticker to a card in your hand. The next turn you can use the C4 to sabotage the military base.

Yes, there is potential for silly objectives, such as building a base only to destroy it. But from what I recall, there are no IMPOSSIBLE objectives.
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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A Flexible character can also solve the problem for you. There are various tricks.

It's not ideal, but you're far from stuck!
 
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Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
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Yeah, as discussed, I believe these are the options.

Ops Expert + C4
Requires: C4 available as equipment sticker
Action 1: Build military base without card
Action 2: Make equipment C4
Action 3: Sabotage using C4
Cost: 3 actions, 1 card

Ops Expert only
Prereq: Travel to a city card you have (may consider using Ops Expert "discard to travel anywhere from any structure")
Action 1: Build military base without card
Action 2: Sabotage base
Cost: 2 actions, 1 card, extra actions to get to that city. Worst case, can use 4 actions, 2 cards to build a facility -> discard one card to travel to city on other card, then proceed as above.


Rivals
P1: Action 1: Build military base with card
[P2 free action: discard 2 to pick up card]
P2: Action 1: Sabotage military base
Cost: 2 actions, 3 cards, +probably extra actions for rivals to reach the correct city (need not be at same time; this could be spread out over the course of a game)

Soldier
Prereq: Has any equipment card, is in city on that card (if city is Level 0 or Level 1, or you have a Parachute, you may use 2 actions to fly there and then pick it back up)
Action 1: Build military base using equipment card
Action 2: Pick up equipment
Action 3: Sabotage base
Cost: 3 actions, 1 card, +extra actions to get to that city

Character with Flexible upgrade:
Prereq: Is in any city where a base can be built, has another card of the same color.
Action 1: Build base
Action 2: Flexible: discard other card to pick up base card
Action 3: Sabotage base.
Cost: 3 actions, 2 cards (same color), +extra actions to get to one of those cities

Character with Shady Connections (or whatever) upgrade:
Prereq: Is in any city where a base can be built, has another card of same color
Action 1: Build base
Action 2: Sabotage base with other card
Cost: 2 actions, 2 cards (same color), +extra actions to get one of those cities

Of all of these, Ops Expert seems like the easy answer, unless he's no longer available in your game. Plus, you have other structures you want to be building in November (probably; I suppose you could have built them all in October and used end game bonuses to make them permanent). Flexible and Shady Connections are also good but require upgrades to have previously been used, and those characters may not be available / may not be well-suited to other objectives.

Edit: Add Flexible and Shady.
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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InfoCynic wrote:
Of all of these, Ops Expert seems like the easy answer, unless he's no longer available in your game.

The Soldier is also pretty straightforward.

Note that it's possible to use the Rivals relationship twice to get the card back into the original player's hand. That might be quicker or easier than getting their Rival to the chosen city.

Also, the Pilot can get to a city while keeping its card, which makes constructing a military base simpler. (And then they're at a military base, so could Equip a spare pack of C4 onto another card in their hand.)


There's one more option we've not mentioned: lose and make some military bases permanent then destroy them the following game. Not a pleasant option, I accept. (-8 Though, thinking about it, you'd only have to do that once to be set up for multiple games: from then on in each game you could build two military bases and destroy two others.
 
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Carl Bussema
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Lansing
Michigan
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Ugh, Rivals twice... that's expensive. I suppose if you really want to be crazy, yeah:

P1-1: Discard X to build MB in X
P2-Rivals: Discards M, N to pick up X
P1-2: Discard Y for any other effect (funded/unfunded event? relevant equipment? hand limit?)
P2-Rivals: Discard X and Z to pick up Y
P1-Rivals: Discard A and B to pick up X that P2 just discarded
P1-3: Sabotage base

Cost: X, M, N, Y (played for hopefully some effect), Z, A, B = 7 cards, 3 actions (maybe 2 depending on what Y was). Extra actions for P1 to get to city X.

There are plenty of movement tricks that can reduce the effort to get to the right city; Pilot and Dispatcher being the obvious ones. In general I just mention that it will cost actions if you have to be in a particular exact city (whereas Ops + C4 or Ops + Shady) is significantly more flexible in where they can do this.
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Robert Stewart
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If you haven't already had (and destroyed) 7 permanent bases before November, then you should have 2 permanent military bases in the second game of November without having done anything.

There's plenty of things, as others have said, which let you build and destroy military bases in the same game, but there's also the option to accept a game loss and pick up the objective in game 2.
 
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Konrad G
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Thanks guys, plenty of workarounds that we've missed. Unfortunately the ops expert was dead at this point, but we could have used the rivals for it.

Still it sounds broken to me: Find a particular combination of character relationships and/or equipment (C4), so that you can... build and destroy an object within one game? Meh.
 
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Carl Bussema
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happy_bee wrote:
Thanks guys, plenty of workarounds that we've missed. Unfortunately the ops expert was dead at this point, but we could have used the rivals for it.

Still it sounds broken to me: Find a particular combination of character relationships and/or equipment (C4), so that you can... build and destroy an object within one game? Meh.


Well, you know that's an objective before you pick your characters for the game. It's not like the objective changed mid-month leaving you in a bad place. Also, most players likely had plenty of starting military bases since the game highly encouraged using them (and even gave them to you as a win bonus once, or twice if you lost the early next month). If Ops was dead and Solider wasn't, I would definitely use Soldier to just recycle C4 easily, or even if you couldn't find C4; using any equipment card to build a base in that city and then pick up that card again is simple. If Ops and Soldier were both dead, well, then you definitely have a harder time, no argument there.
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Robert Crawford
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North Carolina
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Wait, does the "vaccinate 6 cities" objective say to destroy it at the end of the game if you complete it?
 
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Anthony Davies
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Newberg
Or
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Just a small note, you can literally be ANY character to do the equip C4 and destroy military base. The Ops Expert just gives you the advantage because you can literally be in any city and have any card to complete the action. Anyone else it would require discarding two cards to accomplish and require being in a matching city.

I agree that this is a bit of a confusing objective. I don't think most players would think, "Oh! I can just build a military base and immediately destroy it!" There should have been something in the narrative that would allude that this is allowed.

I'm just surprised that this actually became an issue for some people, but it is understandable. We didn't think it was important to destroy more military bases than stated in the objective, since they had no detrimental effect at the time. So having 6 starting military bases when the new objective was uncovered, along with creating a new starting base at the beginning of each game, meant we had plenty to choose from

GendoIkari_82 wrote:
Wait, does the "vaccinate 6 cities" objective say to destroy it at the end of the game if you complete it?


Yes, it is a one time objective that should be destroyed after the game in which is was achieved.
 
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Scott Hannah
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Houston
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It sounds like you're saying you haven't built many bases. Have you been building at the start of each game? Remember that there is a new rule (I can't remember which) that says that during the setup when you infect cities, the first card you draw gets a permanent military base - military base and sticker. This continues every game until you don't have any more permanent military base stickers (that game started you with 8).
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Robert Stewart
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srhannah52 wrote:
It sounds like you're saying you haven't built many bases. Have you been building at the start of each game? Remember that there is a new rule (I can't remember which) that says that during the setup when you infect cities, the first card you draw gets a permanent military base - military base and sticker. This continues every game until you don't have any more permanent military base stickers (that game started you with 8).


Rule B, among the flaps opened from Box 6.
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Tobias
Germany
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I also think that story-wise it doesn't make sense to build bases just to destroy them again.

I'd say, double-check that you really put the permanent bases in at the beginning of each game since that rule became effective. If you haven't I'd suggest to draw this many cards at random and put them there.

Otherwise, if everything is correct, I'd go with what makes sense to the story, so I'd say, either consider the mission as accomplished when no military bases are left (you at least have to destroy the base that was made permanent at the beginning of 11.2) OR put up two bases during the setup (since the military is about to be wiped out, it begins to build new bases faster).

To me, both would make sense story-wise while build-to-destroy does not.
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Clive Jones

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Matt Leacock has given an official ruling on this here.
I wrote:
Later, suppose there are no military bases at all on the board. Must players build military bases and destroy them again in order to meet the objective of destroying two military bases?

mleacock wrote:
Yes, the players must build military bases (if you like, pretend the characters are doing this to confuse Zodiac) in order to destroy them and meet the required objectives.
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Jon Padgett
United Kingdom
Unspecified
Hampshire
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No, November is possible to win. My wife and I managed it in the first half of the month. The months we had trouble with were May & October where we didn't win a game.
 
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Robert Crawford
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Cut_Throat_Jake wrote:
No, November is possible to win. My wife and I managed it in the first half of the month. The months we had trouble with were May & October where we didn't win a game.


He meant in his specific situation, having lost the first time while completing a goal.
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Dean L
United Kingdom
Coventry
West Midlands
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happy_bee wrote:
Thanks guys, plenty of workarounds that we've missed. Unfortunately the ops expert was dead at this point, but we could have used the rivals for it.

Still it sounds broken to me: Find a particular combination of character relationships and/or equipment (C4), so that you can... build and destroy an object within one game? Meh.


Not really. If you've not built many military bases you likely haven't been prioritising destroying them either, so you're likely to have C4 stickers available. Any character can sticker one up and use it, and the Soldier can recover it from the discard pile.

Plus you should have two on the board at least from the start-game builds, unless you destroyed one in the first part of November.
 
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Todd France
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Just wanted to add that I don't think anyone has included the "Formidable" upgrade as a tenable workaround.
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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Montreal
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It seems to me you should have prioritized finishing with the Vaccinate 6 cities goal as your third goal so you wouldn't be stuck without it on November game 2...
 
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Maciej Sosnowski
Poland
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Didn't you have the rule, that before each game you draw a city in which you place a military base?

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