$20.00
$15.00
$30.00
$5.00
Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
26 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: Where is the love? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
K S
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I recently picked up this game and both expansions at a good price. I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but it honestly looks like it will be very much my thing and I look forward to enjoying it.

One thing that has puzzled me though is how little I hear about it. It's a popular license, a prominent designer, published by a high-profile company, it's widely distributed, in the BGG top 100 (with 11k ratings) and yet I don't hear it mentioned often, even in discussions specifically focused on the 4X genre. There's not even a Dice Tower review, and they review everything. Are there things that I'm missing?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gannon Dubay
United States
West Henrietta
NY - New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The base game has some noticeable balance issues that were later solved with the expansions, but they didn't come out for a while after the main game was released. My guess is that a lot of people dismissed it as unbalanced and just never went back to check out the fixes the expansions provide. Also a lot of people see TtA as the cream of the civilization games crop so this game is playing second fiddle.

But I agree it is surprisingly under-respresented for such a good game!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin McGillivray
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
I have the base game and both expansions too and, unfortunately, haven only gotten half a learning game in. I think it has to do with a few things:

If I had to guess, I would say it's because of its age. Sid Meier's Civilization came out in 2010 and I think it has been superseded by more recent games like Clash of Cultures that take less time to learn and scratch that same itch.

Plus Fantasy Flight doesn't have much reason to give this game any love. If I recall correctly, they have said that this game is "complete". There's no other expansions planned and the designer isn't involved anymore. I would bet there's no reprint in the works either.

On a personal note, this game lost a little bit of its "bloom" for me when I realized how deeply explored it has been by other players. There's so much data on which civilizations are strongest with which forms of government and whatnot that it feels like its no new territory. I get that's just psychological but I wonder if other people are feeling that too.

One thing about the game overall that is a bit annoying to me is that (from what I've read) the 18 civilizations in the base game and both expansions aren't well balanced so you can't play them together. I wish FF had released a unified rulebook to cover the entire game and rebalanced the civilizations once everything was released.

As for there not being a Dice Tower review, I think this has to do with complexity. This game doesn't fit well in a 6-7 minute review, in my opinion. The Drakkenstrike videos are pretty good though.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K S
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Thanks, for the response Gannon. Could you tell me a bit more about the balance issues and how the expansions fixed them? Even though I have both the expansions, I was planning on starting out with just the base game to learn the rules before adding in the expansions. Are there any particular ways to avoid imbalance, or would you advise simply starting off with all of the expansions added?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K S
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
mcgillivray wrote:
If I had to guess, I would say it's because of its age. Sid Meier's Civilization came out in 2010 and I think it has been superseded by more recent games like Clash of Cultures that take less time to learn and scratch that same itch.

Plus Fantasy Flight doesn't have much reason to give this game any love. If I recall correctly, they have said that this game is "complete". There's no other expansions planned and the designer isn't involved anymore. I would bet there's no reprint in the works either.

On a personal note, this game lost a little bit of its "bloom" for me when I realized how deeply explored it has been by other players. There's so much data on which civilizations are strongest with which forms of government and whatnot that it feels like its no new territory. I get that's just psychological but I wonder if other people are feeling that too.


Thanks for this, Kevin. I had guessed that future expansions were unlikely, but it's good to know that it's official. I had heard about Clash of Cultures before picking up Civilization, but for me the big downside of that game was availability of the "civilizations" expansion, which I just know I would want, but it seems quite difficult to find. Maybe I'll try to track it down if Civilization doesn't end up wowing me. Have you played CoC and, if so, do you prefer it to Civilization?

Sorry to hear that Civilization lost its luster for you even before you finished a full game. I can see how that might affect a lot of players, but I don't expect that to be an issue for my playgroup. We don't really research game strategies, so I hope that by the time dominance becomes clear to us, we'll have gotten our value out of the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Commander Crud
msg tools
mbmbmb
wamsp wrote:
Thanks, for the response Gannon. Could you tell me a bit more about the balance issues and how the expansions fixed them? Even though I have both the expansions, I was planning on starting out with just the base game to learn the rules before adding in the expansions. Are there any particular ways to avoid imbalance, or would you advise simply starting off with all of the expansions added?


I've taught multiple people using both expansions. They really do fix several problems with the game and even helps to speed it up. I never play without them.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K S
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
commandercrud wrote:
I've taught multiple people using both expansions. They really do fix several problems with the game and even helps to speed it up. I never play without them.

Thanks for this! Could you please elaborate a bit on what those problems are and how the expansions fix them?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin McGillivray
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
wamsp wrote:
Have you played CoC and, if so, do you prefer it to Civilization?

Sorry to hear that Civilization lost its luster for you even before you finished a full game. I can see how that might affect a lot of players, but I don't expect that to be an issue for my playgroup.


I've only played CoC once. I've had a hard time finding people who were willing to (a) learn it with me or (2) teach a newbie. I liked it a lot and bought the base game and the expansion. It's a very different experience from SMC but totally worth playing.

I'm still VERY interested in playing SMC. If you're ever in Southern California, look me up!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Fuhrmann
United States
Spencerville
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
wamsp wrote:
commandercrud wrote:
I've taught multiple people using both expansions. They really do fix several problems with the game and even helps to speed it up. I never play without them.

Thanks for this! Could you please elaborate a bit on what those problems are and how the expansions fix them?


I think the biggest thing is that Wisdom & Warfare replaced the original combat cards and added a health stat to the units. It helped balance the combat quite a bit.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nico
Germany
Germany
flag msg tools
But I don’t want to go among mad people
badge
Oh, you can’t help that, we’re all mad here.
mbmbmbmbmb
Gamemanue wrote:
wamsp wrote:
commandercrud wrote:
I've taught multiple people using both expansions. They really do fix several problems with the game and even helps to speed it up. I never play without them.

Thanks for this! Could you please elaborate a bit on what those problems are and how the expansions fix them?


I think the biggest thing is that Wisdom & Warfare replaced the original combat cards and added a health stat to the units. It helped balance the combat quite a bit.


Yes, this is the most important change. In the base game it was possible to draw some bad cards at the start of the game. Sometimes it was not possible to even fight the barbarians in the first turns and since it's not possible to build near barbarian markers this blocked the possibility to get more cities early.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Watts
New Zealand
Hawera South Taranaki
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ZdadrDeM wrote:
Gamemanue wrote:
wamsp wrote:
commandercrud wrote:
I've taught multiple people using both expansions. They really do fix several problems with the game and even helps to speed it up. I never play without them.

Thanks for this! Could you please elaborate a bit on what those problems are and how the expansions fix them?


I think the biggest thing is that Wisdom & Warfare replaced the original combat cards and added a health stat to the units. It helped balance the combat quite a bit.


Yes, this is the most important change. In the base game it was possible to draw some bad cards at the start of the game. Sometimes it was not possible to even fight the barbarians in the first turns and since it's not possible to build near barbarian markers this blocked the possibility to get more cities early.


Agreed - I lost a few games due to bad draw of cards (until I got W & W) Games are much more even with bad of cards draws now.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Loose Cannon
United States
Ypsilanti
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I just started playing this again, (using both expansions) and games are a lot more fun.

wish I could get more people to play.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Surprise
Arizona
flag msg tools
Hobby aquariums are just like board games: except wet, fishy, and you can't play them.
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been deal hunting the expansions, and finally found them both last month. ...excited to play.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Kyo
Japan
Suita
Osaka
flag msg tools
Forward 1, Forward 2, Forward 3... siege attack 5?
badge
Why for this life there's no man smart enough, life's too short for learning every trick and bluff.
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a good game, but it does kind of require the expansions. The problem with that, of course, is that the expansions both add quite a bit of extra sprawl to an already sprawling game. Social policies, investments, great leaders, extra stuff to remember for armies and scouts... it's a lot to dump on new players. Add to that the mess of rules questions and ambiguities that the game can throw up, the reams of FAQs, and the long play times, and you have something that is quite difficult to get to the table.

All that said, all three people I played with recently came away wanting to play again, so it must be doing something right.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Thomsen
Denmark
Odense C
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/58429/hot-10-2010

I suppose this means somebody plays this.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K S
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
So it seems like the consensus is that Wisdom & Warfare provides a much-needed update for the combat system. In order to avoid overwhelming ourselves with too much on the first play-through, would it make sense to leave aside everything else from the expansions and just use the new combat rules from W&W with the base game for our first learning game?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christoph Wolf
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I highly recommend also using the new governments from the WaW expansion instead of those from the base game. They are a big improvement and there is really no point in getting used to the govs from base game first.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ŁṲÎS̈
United States
Mesa
Arizona
flag msg tools
F*** it! Do it LIVE!
badge
Didn't know what to spend all this sweet GG on, so I bought the overtext.
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd still love another expansion for a 6th player.

Given the type of game it is, it has a very small amount of downtime as some of the phases can be done simultaneously.

Didn't really care for the card based battle, but it's not really that frequent.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nico
Germany
Germany
flag msg tools
But I don’t want to go among mad people
badge
Oh, you can’t help that, we’re all mad here.
mbmbmbmbmb
Mh I think most of the phases have to be done in turn order to have a look at the things other players are doing. Also the combat is only 1v1 and can take some time.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christoph Wolf
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
monteslu wrote:
I'd still love another expansion for a 6th player.

Given the type of game it is, it has a very small amount of downtime as some of the phases can be done simultaneously.

Didn't really care for the card based battle, but it's not really that frequent.


In a thread from somebody who has never played before you shouldn't say such things, when playing he might think he got something terribly wrong
While I don't feel like there is a lot of downtime because I'm always busy thinking my strategies when playing, it is far from being a fast game. When playing a first game with 4 new players it's easy to take 5+ hours. The other truth is that when all players know all the rules, techs, governments, wonders, etc. you can play a 4 player game in 2 hours. Problem is to get everybody to that point...

Also another word on the base game, I enjoyed it a lot without the expansions and had no problems with unbalanced civs.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steph
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Well, it's no Ginkgopolis...
mbmbmbmbmb
ITS JUST SO GOOD!!!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Steer
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
wamsp wrote:
So it seems like the consensus is that Wisdom & Warfare provides a much-needed update for the combat system. In order to avoid overwhelming ourselves with too much on the first play-through, would it make sense to leave aside everything else from the expansions and just use the new combat rules from W&W with the base game for our first learning game?


I'm due to introduce it to a few people soon and I aim to play with a variant somebody suggested on these forums whereby you draw 4 cards (?) from the top of the tech card pile you wish to upgrade from and choose one of them instead of having access to all of them from the start.

I'm sure it could lead to imbalances (the poster suggested always having access to certain cards like Irrigation to ensure fairness) but it massively cuts down your options and therefore downtime.

I'd link to the variant but i can't remember where it was....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Kyo
Japan
Suita
Osaka
flag msg tools
Forward 1, Forward 2, Forward 3... siege attack 5?
badge
Why for this life there's no man smart enough, life's too short for learning every trick and bluff.
mbmbmbmbmb
wamsp wrote:
So it seems like the consensus is that Wisdom & Warfare provides a much-needed update for the combat system. In order to avoid overwhelming ourselves with too much on the first play-through, would it make sense to leave aside everything else from the expansions and just use the new combat rules from W&W with the base game for our first learning game?

I would do the following:
Replace everything that needs replacing, including the combat cards. There's quite a bit, and you might as well get it out of the way. No reason to learn one set of techs then switch.

Then, yeah, everything else is optional-ish. You should use it all to properly balance the feasibility of different victory paths, but there's also no harm in saving most of the complications from the expansions for later.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Fuhrmann
United States
Spencerville
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
the_bengine wrote:
wamsp wrote:
So it seems like the consensus is that Wisdom & Warfare provides a much-needed update for the combat system. In order to avoid overwhelming ourselves with too much on the first play-through, would it make sense to leave aside everything else from the expansions and just use the new combat rules from W&W with the base game for our first learning game?


I'm due to introduce it to a few people soon and I aim to play with a variant somebody suggested on these forums whereby you draw 4 cards (?) from the top of the tech card pile you wish to upgrade from and choose one of them instead of having access to all of them from the start.

I'm sure it could lead to imbalances (the poster suggested always having access to certain cards like Irrigation to ensure fairness) but it massively cuts down your options and therefore downtime.

I'd link to the variant but i can't remember where it was....


Wow. I mean, I understand the desire to reduce downtime for newbies, but I would never want to play that way. Yes, certain techs like irrigation are going to be highly valued by everyone, but there are so many variables that affect what techs you choose - your civ, what's on the map close to you, what victory condition you're aiming for, etc. - I don't think it would really be possible to set out all of the ones that might be vitally important to someone. That's way too much luck for this kind of game, IMO.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Steer
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Sure, i don't disagree. But as a way to introduce the game to people, I think it potentially avoids that AP moment of reading the small print on an entire hand of tech cards while trying to get your head around all their implications.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.