$20.00
Ed T
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I had mistakenly assumed that there were no new rules added in version 4 (since Fading Glory) and just found the new "Maintaining Contact" rule in the rulebook by accident. Is there a summary somewhere of the changes that v.4 implemented? Thanks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance McMillan
United States
Lakebay
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Simple answer: no. Sadly, I'm just to busy to compile one, plus a lot of the changes are kind of "evolutionary" in nature (in other words, we kind of make them up as the need arises based on player feedback, or someone on my test team coming up with a great idea, and then once we hit a sort of "critical mass" where there are enough changes to warrant it, we update the rules and publish a new version). It's also worth noting that a lot of the changes aren't systemic so much as they are semantic (i.e. changing the wording to try and make the concepts easier to understand, rather than actually changing the rule itself).

Now, that said, going strictly off of very hazy memory, my recollection is that the major changes between v3.0 and v4.0 were the following:

= Formally including "Sudden Death" endings in the Standard rules (they'd been used in many games prior to this, but had always been part of the Exclusive rules)

= Maintaining Contact [8.2.4]

= Formalizing when you perform checks for Special Troops (step D of the Combat procedure)

= Incorporating Garrisons into the Standard rules (they'd been used in numerous games prior to this, but had always been part of the Exclusive rules)

= Trying yet again to untangle the retreat rules (I get more questions about this one aspect of the game than all other topics combined)

= Some minor revisions/updates to the optional "Special Troop Units" rules, most notably the rule for the Elan bonus for Elite troops

Hope that helps.

Lance McMillan
Developer for VPG's "Napoleonic 20" series
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Lancer4321 wrote:
= Trying yet again to untangle the retreat rules (I get more questions about this one aspect of the game than all other topics combined)

I played Borodino and Smolensk with a friend a couple weekends ago (with his Fading Glory ruleset) and sure enough, we were stumped on a couple of murky retreat situations and ended up having to improvise after discussing what we thought the intent was... Retreat rules are tricky indeed...!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed T
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Lance! I had read that the changes were largely semantic so when I sat down to try out my new copy of Prussia 20 I didn't think to check the new rulebook out. Maybe I'll try taking a stab at compiling the changes - I spent some time looking at the three versions of the rules this morning as it is.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance McMillan
United States
Lakebay
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
Retreat rules are tricky indeed...!


"Tricky" is a good descriptor. They're actually not that convoluted, and in about 90-95% of the cases it doesn't make any difference. It's those occasional "quirky" situations that make it such a freakin' mess! Most games avoid these problems by simply having one player or the other conduct the retreat -- we kind of have that here too (the retreating player gets to choose when there are options), but the restrictions on where your unit can go are so tight that it's a bit unusual for those sorts of situations to develop.

I've just come to accept that there's no easy way to deal with the situation, that I'm going to be answering retreat questions forever.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed T
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey Lance, this is what I'm seeing as the functional differences between Fading Glory and the v4 rules. FYI, Garrisons were included in the FG rulebook. There isn't that much stuff in the end! I encourage anyone to help me if I missed something.

[3.0] Setting Up the Game

New setup instructions for the card deck regarding the handling of cards with red titles.

[4.0] Sequence of Play

“Sudden Death Turn” rules have been moved from the exclusive rules to the main rulebook:

[7.1] Major River Hexsides

An additional section of rules / clarifications regarding the effects of Major Rivers and ZOCs has been added. The only actual functional change that I see is Cavalry can now choose to disengage from enemy units across a bridge/forded Major River hexside; the Fading Glory rules only allow a Cavalry unit that is “adjacent” to Disengage, and units separated by any type of Major River hexside are not considered “adjacent”

[8.0] The Reaction Phase

All units have a new (standard rule) ability to “maintain contact” ([8.2.4] Maintaining Contact) with a Disengaging unit that was adjacent to it.

[9.0] Combat


A new step “D” has been added to the Combat Procedure list explicitly detailing when Special Troop types are checked.

Retreating After Combat ([9.7]) has been overhauled for additional clarity.

Details about Reluctant Units (new unit type) Advancing After Combat are detailed in [9.8.2].

[16.0] Optional Rules

New Optional Rules detailing new mechanics for Elite Units ([16.7.1] Elite Unit Élan! Bonus), as well as other unit types previously detailed in the Exclusive Rules.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Lancer4321 wrote:
I've just come to accept that there's no easy way to deal with the situation, that I'm going to be answering retreat questions forever.

Clearly there is NO RETREAT from your fate!
1 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance McMillan
United States
Lakebay
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
Clearly there is NO RETREAT from your fate!


You slay me, sir.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance McMillan
United States
Lakebay
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
supermaxv wrote:
[8.0] The Reaction Phase Cavalry have a new (standard rule) ability to “maintain contact” ([8.2.4] Maintaining Contact) with a unit that was adjacent to it.


You need to carefully re-read this -- the ability to Maintain Contact is for all units, not just cavalry (in fact, in most cases it will be infantry units that exercise the option). Basically, cavalry (or light infantry) first Disengage and then some other unit follows them into the vacated hex to Maintain Contact.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Sandifer
United States
Lutherville
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Lancer4321 wrote:
= Some minor revisions/updates to the optional "Special Troop Units" rules, most notably the rule for the Elan bonus for Elite troops


I just broke out Hundred Days 20 (Waterloo scenario) and was surprised to discover that the Guard unit had been reduced from a 4-2 to a 3-2. But the reduction made sense once we dug through the rulebook and discovered the optional Elan bonus (which we will definitely use).

This does mean, however, that the 4th edition rulebook isn't entirely backwards compatible with Waterloo in Fading Glory, since presumably you wouldn't want players to be able to bump the Guard unit up to 5-2 (with Elan) in that game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance McMillan
United States
Lakebay
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
wkover wrote:
...was surprised to discover that the Guard unit had been reduced from a 4-2 to a 3-2.


It's a little more complicate than that. When we lowered the Guard unit's strength we also shifted the Guard's cavalry strength over to Kellerman's cavalry unit, boosting its strength from a 1-3 to a 2-3 (and giving that unit the "Guard" attribute). So overall, total French combat strength remained about the same, but their ability to effectively bring that strength to bear was reduced.

wkover wrote:
This does mean, however, that the 4th edition rulebook isn't entirely backwards compatible with Waterloo in Fading Glory, since presumably you wouldn't want players to be able to bump the Guard unit up to 5-2 (with Elan) in that game.


No, that's not the case. The "Elan" rule is (and is intended to be) fully backwards compatible. Don't forget that the British have an elite unit in both editions of the game, and "Elan" applies to it as well (and the British unit isn't a "Guard" unit so it's much easier to bring it to bear), so there's rough equality in strength enhancement across both sides.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Sandifer
United States
Lutherville
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Makes sense. Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.