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Vinhos Deluxe Edition» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Played learning game, somewhat unsure the strategy rss

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Nathan DeBardeleben
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Los Alamos
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I played the game for the first time this past weekend. It went fine but I was left sort of unsure what to do to do better. Not abnormal feeling for me after a game. Any thoughts on strategy? I went for 3 estates / regions, had a bit of wineries and workers, focused on getting barrels and using them to win the export tracks. I did. And my opponent crushed me using his barrels to get multipliers only and won with things like 25 points for having at least 20 money and other multipliers that were way more lucrative than exporting. So I'm scratching my head. Thoughts on strategy?
 
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mfl134
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In general it is a balancing act of scoring points on the fair, exporting and multiplier.

I know in many games similar to this (where you are building some form of engine that will yield future points), players often spend too much time building up the engine before starting converting the engine to points. So a big point of succeeding is using focusing on points at the right time.

I'm not sure how many players were in your game, but if it was 2 player, you will need to considering things differently as there are lots of zero some moments. There are lots of points to being ahead at the fair and every multiplier you take is one your opponent will not take.
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mfl134
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For example, you can start analyzing your game by answering why you had 3 estates. Why not more? Why not less?
 
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mfl134
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and more specifically, consider:

what value of wine did you use to get how many points in the exports area?

what value of wine did your opponent use to get how many points from magnates?

if you consider points per value of wine that will give you a good idea of how well you are converting your wine to points, but then you have to consider how much effort was spent to get your wine to a specific value.
 
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Byron Brown
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In my first playthrough, I was struck by the potential lopsidedness of certain points. For example, in a two player game, one player got a huge lead in the first fair and won 36 points from the three fairs compared to only 12 for the other player. However, the other player got the 25 point multiplier at the end and that turned the game completely around. Most of the other scoring was non-game changing, but generally competitive. The player who took the 25 point card passed on the farmer card in doing so, which would have given him 18 points. The 3 pt per farmer card was taken by the other player, giving him only 6 points, but avoiding the extra windfall the first player would have gotten from it.

The thing that struck me about the end game was the importance of having barrels available to put on the multipliers, and to go to the export market. Satisfying the judges at each of the fairs does not affect your scoring at the fair, but it does free up barrels for these purposes. If you neglect satisfying at least two judges per time, you will be short at the end.

Finally, I also learned the importance of having cheap wine available to take those magnate and multiplier cards. Rather than making all of your wine as high quality as possible, get a couple of cheap vineyards going to produce $2 wine. These seems like the most obvious strategy to have enough wine available to trade for the tiles without using the wine you can sell for $5 or more or use in the export market.
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Jared Davis
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Just an FYI regarding the point/banknote multiplier tile that has been mentioned a few times in this thread - if you look in the reference book at the description for the tile, you don't score an additional 25 points for 20 banknotes, but rather you replace the normal points for banknotes scoring that is on the board with the values listed on the tile instead.

I just wanted to point that out because I think it could be an easy thing to miss or misinterpret if you don't look at the description in the reference book.
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Thiago N
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The same happened on my 2016 first play (4p). It worths nothing to build a lot of high value wines to the fair and export if you don't save some spare to trade for Magnates multipliers. Not that I don't like the multipliers concept (like Age III cards in Age of Empires III/Age of Discovery), but I think they have too much importance on Vinhos.
 
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Ryan M
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ullapool wrote:
I played the game for the first time this past weekend. It went fine but I was left sort of unsure what to do to do better. Not abnormal feeling for me after a game. Any thoughts on strategy? I went for 3 estates / regions, had a bit of wineries and workers, focused on getting barrels and using them to win the export tracks. I did. And my opponent crushed me using his barrels to get multipliers only and won with things like 25 points for having at least 20 money and other multipliers that were way more lucrative than exporting. So I'm scratching my head. Thoughts on strategy?


When I teach Vinhos to new people I try to keep it very simple and basic. I point out that what they want to be doing is making as much wine as possible, and try to make that wine as high value as possible. In my experience, players who make a lot of wine tend to have more options and do better than players who focus too much on high value wine (which often means less quantity for bonus actions, etc).

Second, I tell them that the trick of the game is you never want to be fighting with everyone else over an action or location, but you also don't want to let anyone be completely alone anywhere. The game has a natural supply and demand mechanism built in I find which you need to be aware of. For example, if everyone is fighting over getting lots of vineyards, the vineyard action can get very expensive. So you need to work around other players while still risking paying a bit more to share the action space with someone else. On the other hand, everyone playing nice and waiting for a space to be emptry before moving on to avoid an extra buck or two can also mean less than optimum production over time.

Another example, some vineyards may seem very high value relative to others, but if everyone is fighting for those it means possibly less production, less diversification, less chance at being able to use those renown cubes (because others take them all), etc.

The same is true for exporting. If one person is left alone to export, they can get tons of easy points. However, if everyone is fighting hard for those end game points, you end up wasting barrels that could be better used for selling or magnates (actions in 2010 version or end game bonus tiles in 2016 version).

Most of the game seems to naturally operate this way I find. Someone getting too much money can be a problem, but everyone fighting over selling means not enough money. Everyone dumping barrels onto magnates (2010 v) means potential for wasted barrels but allowing one or two players to dominate those spaces means giving away points.

To me, that is the bigger strategy. Timing and working around the other players. Finding your own path to success, but also not straying to far from the other players and risking leaving someone alone to dominate in any particular areas.

So coming back to my main point, when I teach people I tell them the goal is to make lots of wine, and try to make it as high value as possible. Second, you don't want to waste too much time fighting with others for shared space/points but you also don't want to let one player alone to dominate in any particular area. Using your example, the flaw in your strategy wasn't the diversity of your plan, it was letting that other player alone to dominate in that one area.
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James J

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Great advice, Ryan. I am a noob, but during my first game I was immediately struck by the notion that this may seem to be an engine-building game but it is far more of a watch-your-opponent game. You must react to them and adjust your strategy accordingly. If you can get them to commit a lot of actions/resources to competing for a certain type of points (like exporting) while you spread your attention over two or three other points opportunities (like the fair and multipliers). It's more about efficiency combined with nimbleness, I guess.

Underneath that, of course, is the need for at least a good, basic engine. For example, I decided the fair would be a good thing to shoot for. So I made sure to at least have a good red and good white each year, to cover my bases, and they were each in Tras-os-Montes, to pump up my fair score even more. Once that was in place, it was a matter of diversifying with a lot of cheaper wines to buy magnate tiles and for sale/export. But if my opponent had put all her energy into the fair, I would have possibly taken those premium wines elsewhere.
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