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Subject: A place for rules questions rss

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Dane P
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Is there a good place where you go to ask rules questions for ASL?

The Target Acquisition rules for losing/using/gaining acquisition while using bounding fire has me confused as heck.

What is the point of firing as bounding fire if you can't gain acquisition? (Gyrostabilizer excepted). It even looks like you lose acquisition if you fire as bounding fire.
 
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Peter Kossits
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I think that the rationale is that they wanted to give the advantage to the Gun firing on the AFV in the defensive fire phase and let them get their acquisition first.

Note that if you wait until the AFPh to shoot, then you do get the acquisition for Bounding Fire. You just don't get it in the MPh.

You should probably change the title of this thread to something more meaningful. You did find the right place here for the Rules question.
If you don't find an answer or discussion here, you can also try the GameSquad forums for ASL which has a far greater volume of discussion.
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chris gammon
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Gamesquad seems to be most people's preferred source. However if you're on Facebook you can also go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/advancedsquadleader/ and join that group.
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Bruce Probst
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Heliodorus04 wrote:
What is the point of firing as bounding fire if you can't gain acquisition? (Gyrostabilizer excepted). It even looks like you lose acquisition if you fire as bounding fire.


Note that you are asking about Bounding (First) Fire (i.e., BFF; i.e., firing during your MPh). Bounding Fire takes place after the MPh (i.e., in the AFPh).

The point of firing at anything is to make something bad happen to it, right?

If you are successful with BFF, your target may end up destroyed, broken or maybe even just pinned. That maybe allows your other units to move safely whereas before they may have been at risk. Or maybe those other guys weren't moving at all, but your opponent was planning to shoot at them in his DFPh.

A common situation is that your opponent is waiting for a particularly juicy target to come along. You don't want him shooting at those juicy targets if at all possible. BFF gives you the opportunity of eliminating or at least interfering with his waiting game. Maybe the threat of your BFF will cause him to shoot at you instead; if so that sacrifice may ensure the survival of more important units. It's all about trade-offs. Essentially, you're exchanging the possibility of gaining acquisition in the hope that you'll achieve the result you want now.
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Peter Kossits
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With a min TH: +4 mod for moving and possibly +1 for BU, Bounding First Fire is usually not going to be a high probability shot though.
 
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Stephen Stewart
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Firing at infantry HELL NO

Firing at a Large Target SHERMAN TANK? Yes....take the shot.
especially if you go PB...
Easy peasy
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Stephen Stewart
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peterk1 wrote:
With a min TH: +4 mod for moving and possibly +1 for BU, Bounding First Fire is usually not going to be a high probability shot though.

NUT UP and go CE!!
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Bruce Probst
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peterk1 wrote:
With a min TH: +4 mod for moving and possibly +1 for BU, Bounding First Fire is usually not going to be a high probability shot though.


True enough. There are ways to ease that pain, though (most obviously: get up-close and personal for that point-blank DRM).

As I said above, it's all about trade-offs. Every action you take involves some risk, and "probably going to miss" is obviously right up there as a risk. You're not (or should not be) considering the risks of any individual unit though -- the only risk worth considering is the combined risk of all of your forces. "What happens to my troops if I don't take that risk?" You're not always going to get the same answer for every situation. There are plenty of possible scenarios where attempting BFF shots would be an incredibly stupid thing to do.

One of the many things that makes ASL great as a game is that so often you have options. Often, those options have relatively even risk/pay-off calculations. It helps keep the game fresh.

[Something that annoys me personally are games (any games, not just ASL) where your opponent does something that by all reasonable expectations should not work, and he's dopey for even making the attempt -- but then it does work, and all of your carefully-crafted plans have just been flushed. Grr! That being said, any game that doesn't restrict you to "well there's only one thing I can do" is probably better than games that do.]
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GRS

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ASLChampion wrote:
peterk1 wrote:
With a min TH: +4 mod for moving and possibly +1 for BU, Bounding First Fire is usually not going to be a high probability shot though.

NUT UP and go CE!!

That's the spirit of the true ASL player.
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Robin REEVE
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peterk1 wrote:
With a min TH: +4 mod for moving and possibly +1 for BU, Bounding First Fire is usually not going to be a high probability shot though.
Using Area Target Type vs infantry, as it doesn't apply the TEM DRM to the TH DR, makes hitting easier - but the IFT effect is reduced.
Anyway, the main reason for firing ordnance during the AFPh is to "mark" a target, rather than to harm it.
 
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Dane P
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If a tank that has moved at least 1 hex pays a MP to Stop, at which time it fires, does it gain acquisition? I realize if it moves it loses one.

Related:the only way an AFV which has moved can fire is via bounding (first) fire, correct?
The only way a vehicle can fire in the advance fire phase is if it was marked with a bounding fire marker during the prep fire phase, correct?

Also it seems as if you cannot, by rule, fire on the area target type/smoke as bounding fire.
 
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Tuukka
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Quote:
D3.32 Final Fire:...However, if the vehicle did not exhaust its Multiple ROF during its MPh, and did not fire any other weapons (including PRC) during its MPh, it may fire that Multiple ROF weapon (only) again once (C5.3) during its AFPh using the Case C To Hit DRM for ordnance, or halved FP for MG/IFE.


Vehicles cannot use opportunity fire. [D3.3]

Gyrostabilized guns can get acquisition using Bounding first fire. [D11.12]

Area target type cannot be used as a bounding fire. [C3.33]
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Brian Roundhill
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Heliodorus04 wrote:
What is the point of firing as bounding fire if you can't gain acquisition? (Gyrostabilizer excepted). It even looks like you lose acquisition if you fire as bounding fire.


Firing during your Movement Phase is not as uncommon as you think. Drive a Stuart behind that Panther and the odds are not so bad. +4 for the Bounding Fire, -1 for Large Target, and another -2 for Point Blank would be a 9 to hit the Panther in its rear. With two more Stuarts lurking nearby, you can do the Dance of Death - the Panther spins against one threat and another threat comes flying in.

And sometimes you just want to do a drive by. Shoot, then get out of LOS.
 
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Andy Beaton
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Sometimes you want to get up there and hose the guy down with your machine guns. Since you can't split your fire between different phases, you may as well take a long-odds MA shot as well, as long as the odds of hitting are better than the odds of malfing the weapon or getting your best leader sniped.
 
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Bruce Probst
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Heliodorus04 wrote:
If a tank that has moved at least 1 hex pays a MP to Stop, at which time it fires, does it gain acquisition? I realize if it moves it loses one.


It's critical for your rules understanding that you are aware of the differences between Bounding (First) Fire (which only takes place during the MPh) and Bounding Fire (which only takes place during the AFPh). When the rules refer to BFF, they are not talking about Bounding Fire, and vice-versa!

You cannot gain acquisition during BFF [EXC: Gyrostabilizer].

Quote:
Related:the only way an AFV which has moved can fire is via bounding (first) fire, correct?


Not correct. You can fire in the AFPh (and may gain acquisition by doing so, if otherwise permitted).

Quote:
The only way a vehicle can fire in the advance fire phase is if it was marked with a bounding fire marker during the prep fire phase, correct?


Completely incorrect. It sounds like you might be thinking of Opportunity Fire; vehicles cannot use Opportunity Fire.

In their own player turn, vehicles may either fire as Prep Fire (PFPh, marked with a Prep Fire counter), Bounding (First) Fire (MPh, marked with a Bounding Fire counter), or Bounding Fire (AFPh, marked with a Bounding Fire counter). An individual vehicle can fire in only one of those three Phases [EXC: A vehicle that fires as BFF and maintains ROF and fires no other weapons during the MPh is not marked with a Bounding Fire counter and therefore may fire in the AFPh.]

Quote:
Also it seems as if you cannot, by rule, fire on the area target type/smoke as bounding fire.


You can't use the ATT with BFF. You certainly can with Bounding Fire (i.e., the AFPh), but you cannot fire SMOKE in that Phase. Note that to use the ATT at all you must be firing either HE or SMOKE.

(Sorry, NRBH, otherwise I'd provide you with the exact rules references for the above.)
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Wu Wei
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You can get Rate of Fire in the MPh, but not in the AFPh. In some cases, that offsets the disadvantage of not getting an acquire marker.

Also, if you want to end your MPh in a spot where there is not LOS to an enemy, you can shoot at an enemy on the way there without losing anything.
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