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Andrew Highley
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If an investigator uses a card that reduces a test's difficulty to zero - e.g. Roland uses Flashlight's ability, reducing shroud by two, to Investigate the Study (Shroud 2), does the player still need to draw a chaos token?

Based on RR pg15, 'Modifiers', any negative-effect chaos tokens, even a -8 would still bring his score down to zero (ie Pass). Even a tentacle 'autofail' causes the total skill value for that test to be considered as 0, which would technically seem to be a pass as the player has equaled the difficulty value... There seems no way to really 'fail', so is the chaos token draw necessary?

The concept of Automatic Success due to a card ability is acknowledged at ST.6 of the Skill Test timing sequence (RR pg26), but given this is a late step it would seem to indicate that the that the player progresses through all previous steps, including drawing a chaos token...

Assuming the draw is still necessary, the only tangible effect would seem to be if the chaos token gives a character or quest specific outcome, e.g. Elder sign or cultist.

Have I missed something?
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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I would think auto-fail means exactly that. The test is failed.

Yes, you might have reduced the difficulty to zero. And yes, the investigator's skill counts as zero. And yes, if your skill equals the difficulty you succeed.

Unless you draw the auto-fail chaos token. Otherwise it would simply be the "reduce your skill to zero" token.
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Joel Tamburo
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You certainly can auto-fail - that is what happens with the auto-fail token.
 
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Andrew Highley
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SirRoke wrote:


Unless you draw the auto-fail chaos token. Otherwise it would simply be the "reduce your skill to zero" token.


That's kind of what I've been hung up on. At the bottom of RR26, that's kind of how the tentacle IS described... "If an investigator automatically fails at a test via a card ability or revealing the [Tentacle] symbol, his or her total skill value for that test is considered 0."

Maybe the term 'auto-fail' does override this and the zero (PASS) score is moot. Easier to consider this to be the case unless someone has a wildly different opinion.
 
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mplain
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The quoted entry does not mean that an auto-fail just means "treat your skill value as 0". A fail is a fail. But this entry clarifies what to do if an effect asks how much you failed by.
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Andrew Highley
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mplain wrote:
The quoted entry does not mean that an auto-fail just means "treat your skill value as 0". A fail is a fail. But this entry clarifies what to do if an effect asks how much you failed by.

Thanks for all the replies. 'Auto-fail' is exactly that in both name and outcome. That last piece of context definitely nails it shut.
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David Boeren
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Yes, because some tokens have other effects besides just a plus or minus.
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Brendan Lapsley
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Bill Dozer wrote:
SirRoke wrote:


Unless you draw the auto-fail chaos token. Otherwise it would simply be the "reduce your skill to zero" token.


That's kind of what I've been hung up on. At the bottom of RR26, that's kind of how the tentacle IS described... "If an investigator automatically fails at a test via a card ability or revealing the [Tentacle] symbol, his or her total skill value for that test is considered 0."

Maybe the term 'auto-fail' does override this and the zero (PASS) score is moot. Easier to consider this to be the case unless someone has a wildly different opinion.


This looks correct.
But on page 6 of the rules reference, it says "This is the auto-fail token. If this token is revealed for a
skill test, it indicates the investigator automatically fails the
test (see “Automatic Failure/Success” on page 5)."

I would think this means the auto-fail applies, then if there is a need to look at the numbers, the skill check counts as "0".
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Magnus Poitier
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Tentacle token doesn't mean that you compare your skill to a test value of 0. It means you fail. If the card has an effect dependent on the test difficulty, then you use 0 for that value.

But you fail, whatever the test value and your skill value are, when you draw the Tentacle Token.

And if you check the Reference document, you can see that the steps are to check the test difficulty, commit/spend any amount of cards/resources to change the test value and your skill value, then draw a token, apply that to your skill value and compare.
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