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Subject: Nearly invincible shaman in Pict Village? rss

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Andi Anonymous
Germany
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Yesterday we played the pict village several times with 4 heros. This grants the OL 7 gems each round.

We found out that the shaman is pretty hefty if he stays in his stone hut and the OL always saves 5+ gems for guarding.

Did we misinterpret the rules or is it legal for the OL to keep his gems to make the shaman invincible? Even Conan has a hard time killing him if the OL plays it save.

PS: Wall breaker isn't working on stone huts and Conan was constantly blocked on this way to the shaman.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Abbath wrote:
Yesterday we played the pict village several times with 4 heros. This grants the OL 7 gems each round.


If the OL does that, he can't do much except protect the shaman. But...

Abbath wrote:
We found out that the shaman is pretty hefty if he stays in his stone hut and the OL always saves 5+ gems for guarding.

Did we misinterpret the rules or is it legal for the OL to keep his gems to make the shaman invincible? Even Conan has a hard time killing him if the OL plays it save.


Yes, it's legal.

Remember that you have 2 different ways to attack him with Conan:

- put all of Conan's energy (up to his melee limit) into a single powerful attack. The OL can possibly block this by spending all of his gems on Dodge and/or rerolls, but then he has no energy to protect from the other characters.

- make one attack after another using only 1 gem each. This approach forces the OL to decide whether or not to block individual points of damage. If he does, then the shaman will be open up to attack by the other heroes.

If you can find an Exploding Orb, you can use that on the shaman to force the OL to spend some of his energy dodging that damage, and THEN attack him with Conan.

Don't be afraid to gang up on him with all 3 heroes. The wizard is physically weak but he can carry the shaman's head without any penalties. (If he carries the princess, he loses the ability to cast spells.)
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Andi Anonymous
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I see. Problem is Conan was blocked by the Pict Warriors for a few rounds on his way to the shaman. I think if there are a few bad rolls in the first rounds this scenario is nearly unbeatable for the heros.
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seb seb2
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[q="Abbath"]Yesterday we played the pict village several times with 4 heros. This grants the OL 7 gems each round.

We found out that the shaman is pretty hefty if he stays in his stone hut and the OL always saves 5+ gems for guarding.
[q]

i don't see how it could work...
saving 5 gems is a lot,and it means he can't do anything else...
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Stephan Beal
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Abbath wrote:
I see. Problem is Conan was blocked by the Pict Warriors for a few rounds on his way to the shaman. I think if there are a few bad rolls in the first rounds this scenario is nearly unbeatable for the heros.


A 1- or 2-round delay in this scenario is fatal for the heroes. Their timing has to be perfect.
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Andi Anonymous
Germany
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[q="Belsamoreth"][q="Abbath"]Yesterday we played the pict village several times with 4 heros. This grants the OL 7 gems each round.

We found out that the shaman is pretty hefty if he stays in his stone hut and the OL always saves 5+ gems for guarding.
Quote:


i don't see how it could work...
saving 5 gems is a lot,and it means he can't do anything else...


He has 11 gems and recovers 7 gems each round.
He can activate two "1 gem tiles" each round and then save the rest. He has nothing to do besides keeping the shaman alive to win this scenario.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Abbath wrote:
He has 11 gems and recovers 7 gems each round.
He can activate two "1 gem tiles" each round and then save the rest. He has nothing to do besides keeping the shaman alive to win this scenario.


Then you're using 4 heroes, not 3. The scenario recommends 3 and recommends that the OL uses 13 gems and the 5-point recovery. When using 4 heroes, 15 gems and 7-point recovery. If you have 4 heroes and still can't damage the shaman, then i suspect you're trying to kill him with a single hero instead of ganging up on him with 2-3 heroes.
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Andi Anonymous
Germany
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sgbeal wrote:
Abbath wrote:
He has 11 gems and recovers 7 gems each round.
He can activate two "1 gem tiles" each round and then save the rest. He has nothing to do besides keeping the shaman alive to win this scenario.


Then you're using 4 heroes, not 3. The scenario recommends 3 and recommends that the OL uses 13 gems and the 5-point recovery. When using 4 heroes, 15 gems and 7-point recovery. If you have 4 heroes and still can't damage the shaman, then i suspect you're trying to kill him with a single hero instead of ganging up on him with 2-3 heroes.


We played with 4 heros. Forgot about the 4 gems in the fatigue area, so 15 gems is correct.
Yes, there was only shevatas attacking the shaman without success due to the many guard dice.
Belit got blocked by a pict warrior, same goes for Conan. Both didn't manage to kill the picts with 2 gems and got overrun by hyenas and pict hunters. OL was only using 1-3 gems per round for tile activation.
The mage was teleporting from hut to hut looking for the princess, finding it in the last hut.

Sure it was really bad luck for the heroes but it happened 2-3 matches in a row.
 
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yuffie kasiragi
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You can make it easier for the heroes then if they are always unlucky with the princess' hut. E,g, drop down to 4 possible locations.

Also, if the Overlord saves 5+ gems for the shaman each turn... why do you want to kill him ?
IIRC you only need the princess to win... (?)
 
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Jens Larsen
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Nope, you need to escape the village with both the princess and the head of Sogar Zag.
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Andi Anonymous
Germany
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We played a couple of rounds again with 3 players and we are now really certain that this map isn't winnable for the heroes IF the OL knows how to play. Means guard the shaman in the hut, don't care about the princess (hide it in a hut with 3 picts) and use the snake to block Conan. We tried to counter this OL tactic without success.

1. Round
Shevatas kills the upper pict warrior, clearing the path for Conan.
Conan (upper left corner) now runs for the shaman's hut door and ends due to movement limit at the doorstep. (Wall breaker only works on wooden walls!)
The mage scouts for the princess or attacks the shaman (pointless with yellow dice). Doesn't matter.
OL activates the snake (6 gems), breaks through the wall and attacks Conan. Saves all his gems for Conan's attacks in round 2 or moves the remaining pict Warriors into Conan's area.

2. Round
From now on Conan is useless unless the snake (8 HP)/pict warriors are killed.
OL uses hyenas to attack Conan and renders him completely useless.

We found out if this situation happens the game is always lost for the heros.
If they use another tactic the OL simply does the same with the snake blocking the shaman in his hut. The heroes lose way too much time or will even die in the "snakepit". Seems unbalanced and/or like there is a way for the OL to exploit this scenario.

If Shevatas and Conan change their starting positions the map is easier for the heroes. Because Conan now can reach the shaman in Round 1.

Question about "Blocking": Conan can't leave an area with a blocker in it no matter how many heroes are with him in the area, right? The blocker has to leave/die?
 
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Craig K
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Questions:

1) Do you know you can attack multiple times a turn per hero?

2) You know you don't have to remove all the snakes HP in a single hit or game round to kill it right?

 
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Andi Anonymous
Germany
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ForeverDead wrote:
Questions:

1) Do you know you can attack multiple times a turn per hero?

2) You know you don't have to remove all the snakes HP in a single hit or game round to kill it right?



1. I know. Problem is the amount of gems the OL can use for guarding
2. I know. The snake blocks Conan, he can't move on to kill the shaman, thats the problem with the snake.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Abbath wrote:

2. I The snake blocks Conan, he can't move on to kill the shaman, thats the problem with the snake.


But, as Arnold Schwarzenegger himself said: "If it bleeds, we can kill it."


(The quote is from Predator, but Arnold also played Conan on film.).
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Andi Anonymous
Germany
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sgbeal wrote:
Abbath wrote:

2. I The snake blocks Conan, he can't move on to kill the shaman, thats the problem with the snake.


But, as Arnold Schwarzenegger himself said: "If it bleeds, we can kill it."


(The quote is from Predator, but Arnold also played Conan on film.).


Sure but you have to beat a defence value of 3 plus at least 5 guarding gems each round until it is dead
 
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Craig K
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Surely if the OL is using 5 gems to defend the snake then surely your other two heroes can pick of the other enemies easily. Or gang up on the snake with more than one hero. If conan throws out massive attack that requires 5 defense dice then surely shevatas can or belit or even hatdrathus with 3 or 4 dice can put some hurt on it after?
 
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Panagiotis Zinoviadis
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Throw Conan's axe to hit the shaman and kill him. Just spend all your gems on this. Possible?
 
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Andi Anonymous
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ZiNOS wrote:
Throw Conan's axe to hit the shaman and kill him. Just spend all your gems on this. Possible?

No LOS into a hut
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Andi Anonymous
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ForeverDead wrote:
Surely if the OL is using 5 gems to defend the snake then surely your other two heroes can pick of the other enemies easily. Or gang up on the snake with more than one hero. If conan throws out massive attack that requires 5 defense dice then surely shevatas can or belit or even hatdrathus with 3 or 4 dice can put some hurt on it after?


The other enemies are in the huts. Losing them is not a problem for the OL, he can easily replace them later.
The other heroes are not a real threat for a defense 3 creature.

 
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Daniel K
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Abbath wrote:
[q="ForeverDead"]
The other heroes are not a real threat for a defense 3 creature.


I don't think so!

for example:
Shevates is able to attack twice with 5 Dice (4 gems mellee-attack+weapon / 4 gems range-attack+weapon). This is enough to get someone in trouble.

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Stephan Beal
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Zeitgeyst wrote:
Abbath wrote:
ForeverDead wrote:

The other heroes are not a real threat for a defense 3 creature.


I don't think so!

for example:
Shevates is able to attack twice with 5 Dice (4 gems mellee-attack+weapon / 4 gems range-attack+weapon). This is enough to get someone in trouble.


Hypothetically, yes, but to do so he has to (A) keep 3 points in reserve and (B) rest for a turn to get the other 5, and the timing on this scenario does not (in my limited experience) allow him to realistically do either of those.
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Mike Malley
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Just a shot in the dark, but any chance something is different between the French and English versions? You probably would've already caught it if so, but with everything else I'm reading, I guess it's worth the ask.
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Daniel K
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long story short...all i want to say is: i dont share your oppinion about this scenario.

Everything here is "Hypothetically" but this doesnt help for this diskussion.

Back to the Point:
Do not underastimate the orange-dice-heroes!


my way: in the first two turns, kill as much enemys as you can and the rest is much easier (Hyanes & Pict hunters) and get some chests.

Played the pict village several times (3 and 4 Heroes)with tabletop-experienced-friends.

I dont say it's "the way", but it is another way to try.

Exs:
Shevatas kill the two Hyenas and check the chest
Conan breaks into the double hut, Kills Hyenas an try to kill more (Pict Hunters).
Hadrathus clears another hut with Pict Warriors

2nd turn, try kill more..3rd turn try to attack Warriors and the Snake



maybe this is a better start for you. I will try your one

EDIT: did you play with 8 or 9 Hero-turns?
rules say: after recovering gems, the overlord moves the turnmarker.. turn X has begun

two possibilities:
1.the turn ends, after the Overlords ends its turn
2.the turn ends, after the heroes have end their turn and the overlord have to move the turnmarker

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Andi Anonymous
Germany
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caffeinehead wrote:
Just a shot in the dark, but any chance something is different between the French and English versions? You probably would've already caught it if so, but with everything else I'm reading, I guess it's worth the ask.


French rules. With english rules it is easy because conan could break through the shaman hut wall avoiding all blockers.
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Andi Anonymous
Germany
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Zeitgeyst wrote:
long story short...all i want to say is: i dont share your oppinion about this scenario.

Everything here is "Hypothetically" but this doesnt help for this diskussion.

Back to the Point:
Do not underastimate the orange-dice-heroes!


my way: in the first two turns, kill as much enemys as you can and the rest is much easier (Hyanes & Pict hunters) and get some chests.

Played the pict village several times (3 and 4 Heroes)with tabletop-experienced-friends.

I dont say it's "the way", but it is another way to try.

Exs:
Shevatas kill the two Hyenas and check the chest
Conan breaks into the double hut, Kills Hyenas an try to kill more (Pict Hunters).
Hadrathus clears another hut with Pict Warriors

2nd turn, try kill more..3rd turn try to attack Warriors and the Snake



maybe this is a better start for you. I will try your one

EDIT: did you play with 8 or 9 Hero-turns?
rules say: after recovering gems, the overlord moves the turnmarker.. turn X has begun

two possibilities:
1.the turn ends, after the Overlords ends its turn
2.the turn ends, after the heroes have end their turn and the overlord have to move the turnmarker


Meanwhile the OL moves the snake and all blockers either on Conan or in front of the shaman hut and has still 10+ gem supply because he doesn't care about his minions. Good luck trying to reach the shaman with Conan within time. A camping OL seems like a glitch user in this scenario.

Will try your start today.
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