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Codex: Card-Time Strategy – Deluxe Set» Forums » General

Subject: how to build a community around this game? rss

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Casey Ryback
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Let me first start out by saying that no one in my gaming group is going to spend $200 for a game. ie deluxe set.

So now that that's out of the way..

Let's say I bring this game to my gaming group and it's a hit, and let's say a few other people buy their own core sets.

Now we're going to have maybe 4 players with their own core sets. But, there's only 2 factions in the core set. ie everyone's going to be playing either green/red.

Do you see what i'm getting at?

thanks

 
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Tilou
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Well tell them to buy the expanions.
 
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Casey Ryback
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there's only one expansion.

Plus, if they're just getting their feet wet and want to see if there's longevity in the game, they're not going to want to invest into a bunch of expansions atm.
 
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Kamil Klapka
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start playing with core box if enough people are interested buy deluxe as group. Split factions and play.

This is similar method which is used in some LCGs like Game of Thrones. You will buy all expansions as group and each player takes cards which are suitable for his faction. There is only one problem - neutral cards as you may not have enough of them to supply all players.

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Casey Ryback
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kamixx wrote:
start playing with core box if enough people are interested buy deluxe as group. Split factions and play.

This is similar method which is used in some LCGs like Game of Thrones. You will buy all expansions as group and each player takes cards which are suitable for his faction. There is only one problem - neutral cards as you may not have enough of them to supply all players.



Well like I said, a $200 game is out of the question.

But I'm glad you brought up game of thrones..

With thrones everyone can buy a core, and we can all play different houses. ie we can have a lot of replayability with each other if we each had a core set. No expansions 'war packs' necessary.


 
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Tilou
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ryback wrote:
there's only one expansion.

Plus, if they're just getting their feet wet and want to see if there's longevity in the game, they're not going to want to invest into a bunch of expansions atm.


There are 2 expansions (and each has two colours). So one player buys one expansion and has enough to play with another player.
 
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Casey Ryback
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tilouboy wrote:
ryback wrote:
there's only one expansion.

Plus, if they're just getting their feet wet and want to see if there's longevity in the game, they're not going to want to invest into a bunch of expansions atm.


There are 2 expansions (and each has two colours). So one player buys one expansion and has enough to play with another player.


I only see one expansion on sirlingames site (flagstone). (not considering starter set an expansion because you only get one hero per faction). There is a whitestar expansion but it's print and play only.

 
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Tilou
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ryback wrote:
tilouboy wrote:
ryback wrote:
there's only one expansion.

Plus, if they're just getting their feet wet and want to see if there's longevity in the game, they're not going to want to invest into a bunch of expansions atm.


There are 2 expansions (and each has two colours). So one player buys one expansion and has enough to play with another player.


I only see one expansion on sirlingames site (flagstone). (not considering starter set an expansion because you only get one hero per faction). There is a whitestar expansion but it's print and play only.



Green vs red is the core, then there is blue vs black and white vs purple (which will probably be available later):
http://codexcarddb.com/
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Casey Ryback
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tilouboy wrote:
ryback wrote:
tilouboy wrote:
ryback wrote:
there's only one expansion.

Plus, if they're just getting their feet wet and want to see if there's longevity in the game, they're not going to want to invest into a bunch of expansions atm.


There are 2 expansions (and each has two colours). So one player buys one expansion and has enough to play with another player.


I only see one expansion on sirlingames site (flagstone). (not considering starter set an expansion because you only get one hero per faction). There is a whitestar expansion but it's print and play only.



Green vs red is the core, then there is blue vs black and white vs purple (which will probably be available later):
http://codexcarddb.com/


This is basically what i'm getting at..

-netrunner core (all 4 corps, all 3 runners).
-game of thrones core (all houses. 7+?).
-warhammer conquest core (7+ factions?).

as you can see from above, once everyone own's a core we can have very diverse matchups. Contrast that with...

-codex core (only 2 races)

As you can see it's easier for me to get my group into the latter games as the core sets give you much more diversity.

 
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Tilou
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Do as you like but with Codex, you'll have everything once and for all. With the LCG's core boxes, you won't get very far...
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Joshua Christensen
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ryback wrote:


This is basically what i'm getting at..

-netrunner core (all 4 corps, all 3 runners).
-game of thrones core (all houses. 7+?).
-warhammer conquest core (7+ factions?).

as you can see from above, once everyone own's a core we can have very diverse matchups. Contrast that with...

-codex core (only 2 races)

As you can see it's easier for me to get my group into the latter games as the core sets give you much more diversity.



For a group of 4 each one buying their own core would cost a total of $128-$160

If that same group wanted to get into Codex with each person buying their own faction, depending on how nicely things line up it would cost any where from $78-$250. On the low end of cost Binders would be a problem (you'd only have two) but it's not too difficult to make your own.

Building a community kind of involves everyone having there own stuff and people keeping up with the game. Now if you're just wanting to play the game casually that is a different matter.

By the end of the year the entire game of Codex will be out so there is nothing to keep up with. Codex might have more of an upfront cost but you wont have to constantly pay to keep up with it. LCGs cost $96-$120 on release and maybe $120 (possibly more?) per year after that.

In other card games you have to wait for a pool of cards to build up before it starts getting interesting. And even at that point your deck only does one thing so playing the same deck over and over gets boring. Codex starts with its entire pool available and a single deck remains very fun to play many games with (I am currently in the process of finding "my deck") because there is so many things a given deck can do.

It would seem I've gone off the rails some what. But if you're going to try and build a community around any card based battler it is going to cost the people involved a fair bit of money. If you're going to play casually I'd still prefer a single Codex core to every one buying their own core and swapping out the cards.

 
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Chris McLeod
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I say wait till the final two expansions are released in the next few months and each pick one.

I loved the game, so bought the Deluxe. You could just buy the Deluxe and divide it up AS IF you had waited several months. The winner of a tourney gets to have a pretty, but useless, box on their shelf.
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Casey Ryback
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ClanNatioy wrote:
ryback wrote:


This is basically what i'm getting at..

-netrunner core (all 4 corps, all 3 runners).
-game of thrones core (all houses. 7+?).
-warhammer conquest core (7+ factions?).

as you can see from above, once everyone own's a core we can have very diverse matchups. Contrast that with...

-codex core (only 2 races)

As you can see it's easier for me to get my group into the latter games as the core sets give you much more diversity.



For a group of 4 each one buying their own core would cost a total of $128-$160

If that same group wanted to get into Codex with each person buying their own faction, depending on how nicely things line up it would cost any where from $78-$250. On the low end of cost Binders would be a problem (you'd only have two) but it's not too difficult to make your own.

Building a community kind of involves everyone having there own stuff and people keeping up with the game. Now if you're just wanting to play the game casually that is a different matter.

By the end of the year the entire game of Codex will be out so there is nothing to keep up with. Codex might have more of an upfront cost but you wont have to constantly pay to keep up with it. LCGs cost $96-$120 on release and maybe $120 (possibly more?) per year after that.

In other card games you have to wait for a pool of cards to build up before it starts getting interesting. And even at that point your deck only does one thing so playing the same deck over and over gets boring. Codex starts with its entire pool available and a single deck remains very fun to play many games with (I am currently in the process of finding "my deck") because there is so many things a given deck can do.

It would seem I've gone off the rails some what. But if you're going to try and build a community around any card based battler it is going to cost the people involved a fair bit of money. If you're going to play casually I'd still prefer a single Codex core to every one buying their own core and swapping out the cards.



"If you're going to play casually I'd still prefer a single Codex core to every one buying their own core and swapping out the cards."

Not quite sure what you mean by this? Casually would be fine but how do I accomodate 4 players? I'm guessing I would have to buy one expansion and then everyone is just going to have to stick to a faction for now? (ie core + expansion = 4 factions)
 
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Christian K
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I don't think the comparisons are quite fair. In game of thrones you get such a little chunk of each faction that you can hardly say you have that faction. It is just to make you want to get more.

With codex you get complete green and complete red. There is no bs.

Price wise, I dont think any CCG or LCG has done as well as Codex.
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Michael
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Right now you can order the core set and include preorders for the blue black expansion and the white purple expansion all for about $85 at either miniature market or coolstuffinc. If you also get the starter
For added versatility that's another $17 or something like that. So for $100 you get everything absolutely everything that there is for these factions as far sense cards go. 6 people could play at a time, either free for all or 3 2player matches at a time or whathaveyou.

An LCG needs three core sets to make decks for all the factions and that about $75-$80. And with an lcg you really will only get one deck per faction. 1 or two of those factions will be dominant, pretty much being better than the others.

Codex is superbly balanced, all the factions have answers to the problems other factions pose. And each faction with its three heroes and three specs is like having the components of three different decks worth of strategies at least! If not more!
Codex is continually interesting, and lcgs if you're just playing core set get stale before not too long, they rely on new content to stay fresh. Codex stays fresh.

Imho you don't get more value or longevity in a card game than codex.

The retail release don't all come with binders, it these are pretty unnecessary, and keeping cards out of binders makes it way easier to deck build with different specs.
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Casey Ryback
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mkaup366 wrote:
Right now you can order the core set and include preorders for the blue black expansion and the white purple expansion all for about $85 at either miniature market or coolstuffinc. If you also get the starter
For added versatility that's another $17 or something like that. So for $100 you get everything absolutely everything that there is for these factions as far sense cards go. 6 people could play at a time, either free for all or 3 2player matches at a time or whathaveyou.

An LCG needs three core sets to make decks for all the factions and that about $75-$80. And with an lcg you really will only get one deck per faction. 1 or two of those factions will be dominant, pretty much being better than the others.

Codex is superbly balanced, all the factions have answers to the problems other factions pose. And each faction with its three heroes and three specs is like having the components of three different decks worth of strategies at least! If not more!
Codex is continually interesting, and lcgs if you're just playing core set get stale before not too long, they rely on new content to stay fresh. Codex stays fresh.

Imho you don't get more value or longevity in a card game than codex.

The retail release don't all come with binders, it these are pretty unnecessary, and keeping cards out of binders makes it way easier to deck build with different specs.


This is a great breakdown thanks.

I already have the core set (which is what I am using to introduce to the group).

fyi - took a look at coolstuffinc and although expansion is $17, their cheapest shipping to CA is like $8. So its not much different than just grabbing it at my FLGS.
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Alex Churchill
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I'd say buy one deluxe set between the group. Let one player take the white, one player take the purple, one take the blue etc. Let everyone play several games with their faction, just to start to get a feel for the different capabilities; you'll have barely dipped your toe into the possibilities at this point.

Then people can be free to mix it up a bit and effectively start "trading". "Hey, I'd like to give black a go for a few games, would you like to take the blue factions for a while?" "I'd like to try combining Peace with Demonology; want to swap your Peace for my Necromancy?" And so on.

The latter options works better with Ultra-Pro pages in standard binders and one spec per binder page, of course. For as long as people are keeping the colours intact, though, the binders that come with the Deluxe set will do you just fine.
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K
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The most important thing for replayability is not the number of factions you have to choose from. If we're talking about replay value it's much more important that you can play each faction a lot without hitting the point where it feels like there isn't much gameplay left and you need more cards -- this is especially true since many people have a tendency to pick a "favorite" faction in these types of games and predominantly play that anyway.

I don't think Codex compares unfavorably to the FFG LCGs. When I played the Core Sets of those, I didn't feel like there was a lot of replay value in one core set because the cards were spread so thin across factions that it isn't long before you feel like you "get it" and need multiple core sets to make the decks feel like they actually worked, and expansions to add some more depth to the gameplay

Perhaps naming the Red VS Green "Core Set" sets certain expectations that aren't met though -- I don't really see what's so "Core" about it other than coming with tokens etc.
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David Jensen
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This game is great.

Barrier to entry is out of reach to encourage me to buy my own. I have always bought my own card games even though I only play in my group - this is a rare exception.

This leads me to the conclusion- this is not a card game. It's a board game that uses cards. I think as a board game it's priced appropriately and appropriate for single ownership within a game group.

So if your game group does not have Codex; get it!
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Alex Churchill
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SirHandsome wrote:
Perhaps naming the Red VS Green "Core Set" sets certain expectations that aren't met though -- I don't really see what's so "Core" about it other than coming with tokens etc.
I think the rules and gameplay in red vs green are a little bit simpler. There's still a vast amount of gameplay depth, and for that matter there's still a lot of rules even in R/G. But you don't have the complication of purple's time runes, or the assumption of perfect knowledge of every card in the opposing deck that blue requires, and so on.

My regular partner and I find that a game involving blue, purple, or white can take over an hour, but we can fit a RvG game into not much more than 30 minutes.
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Andrew Hauge
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For what it's worth, I don't think that only having Red vs. Green is a huge diversity problem. It's comparable to playing Starcraft with Terran and Zerg as the only options. While adding Protoss in deepens the available matchups, there's enough variety already within the two factions to provide interesting and diverse gameplay.

Each color has access to three specializations that are radically different, and you only get to access the units from one specialization per game.
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K
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alextfish wrote:
SirHandsome wrote:
Perhaps naming the Red VS Green "Core Set" sets certain expectations that aren't met though -- I don't really see what's so "Core" about it other than coming with tokens etc.
I think the rules and gameplay in red vs green are a little bit simpler. There's still a vast amount of gameplay depth, and for that matter there's still a lot of rules even in R/G. But you don't have the complication of purple's time runes, or the assumption of perfect knowledge of every card in the opposing deck that blue requires, and so on.

My regular partner and I find that a game involving blue, purple, or white can take over an hour, but we can fit a RvG game into not much more than 30 minutes.


Ya, I agree, Green/Red is definitely appropriate to learn the 3-hero rules for most people before Blue and Purple in particular -- I get the logic in trying to steer people to start there instead of the more complicated factions.

What I meant though is just that in this space FFG has sort of already (unintentionally) defined what "Core Set" means to a lot of people.

That's probably why I've seen people ask questions like do they need to buy multiple Core Sets, and confused over whether the entry point is the Starter Set or the Core Set -- the "Core Set" language comes with some preconceived notions for those familiar with FFG's products.

Also, calling the Red VS Green Core Set at all gives the impression that this is going to be a heavily expanded product like FFG's LCGs, which is not the case. And FFG's "core sets" tend to offer a super-thin starting point for a bunch of different factions. They're advertised as standalone products, but I think they quite clearly serve more as demos to get you started on a gigantic game system.

If this were an FFG product, I'm guessing the "Core Set" would probably contain one hero/spec +starter deck for 4 different colors, and then the expansions would be additional specs for those colors or something. and their core set would have the appearance of having "more stuff" but actually have less gameplay, but might serve as a better "demo" to the game if that makes sense.

I'm glad it's not an FFG product by the way. FFG's LCG model has annoyed me in the past to the point where I don't want to play them even when I really enjoy the game.
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Jeremy Linnell
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I don't think there's much risk of lack of replay ability or predictable strategy in just the Red vs Green set.

The analogy commonly used of being like a Starcraft army rings true. There's different openings. Feints. Builds. Terran vs Zerg never got boring or predictable.

My flatmate and I have just been playing Green vs Red several times a day since our set arrived and we almost always immediately want a rematch.

You'd be fine with just the core set I think.
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