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Subject: the TPP: What's good and bad about it? rss

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Mac Mcleod
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I'd like to get single paragraphs of what you think the best and worst parts of what we know about the TPP treaty now.

I don't have a strong opinion of it.

Please no huge long treatises to begin with. Try to keep them short and pithy.
 
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non sequitur
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Pros: Economists tell me trade is good
Cons: Experience tells me globalization drives down wages as we now compete w/ nations using child slaves to make our shoes
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Mac Mcleod
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Thanks. Anything TPP specific? That sounds like trade in general.
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non sequitur
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maxo-texas wrote:
Thanks. Anything TPP specific? That sounds like trade in general.


Oh, no, I'm ignorant and mainly just subscribing.
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Mac Mcleod
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I probably should have posted that the TPP was awesome and going to be a great thing for everyone.

Asking questions often gets crickets while stating a definate position pulls people from the hills with torches and pitchforks to correct you.

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Josiah Fiscus
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It doesn't break across party lines, so the RSP Hivemind doesn't know what to think?
 
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Kevin Salch
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Yeah, again, nothing specific. Long term free trade is a plus. Especially with level playing fields. BUT....

Short term, hurts jobs.

It's kind of like our experience with automation, short term cuts jobs, long terms grows the economy. The whole John Henry thing.

The treaty is how much we push to get a level playing field.

I don't think it is hard enough (am not up to speed on the treaty)
 
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Wendell
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It depends who you ask. It isn't really that much about tariffs on goods since many goods are already low or zero tariff because of the WTO. But it gets into a lot of newer generation trade issues, like e-trade and intellectual property protection (the US pharmaceutical industry has been bitching about only getting 80% of what they wanted not 100%...), easing customs barriers (non-tariff trade barriers and the like), trade in services, competition policy, etc. As well as things not traditionally considered in trade deals, like labor standards and environmental protection.

If you also look carefully at the membership, you will see that a big country whose name begins with CH and ends with INA isn't included... so there's a geopolitical play there too, to try to lock in countries in the region into the broader global trading system (in which the US is rather important) rather than falling too deep into a Chinese-dominated economic sphere of influence (oops, I said "China"). Probably that's part of the reason there's a chapter on competition with state-owned enterprises...

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Professor of Pain
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Investor–State Dispute Settlement Provision: Companies in member countries will be able to force other member countries into arbitration if they believe that local regulations damage their ability to do business. This could put US environmental regulations at risk, for example. The provision allows foreign investors to sue governments for actions perceived as violating new rights granted by the agreement and they can demand compensation for loss of potential future profits it the government doesn't change its policy.


For more detail see the Roosevelt Institute:
Joseph Stiglitz wrote:
...the key element is TPP’s investment chapter, which gives foreign investors the right to sue governments in private international arbitration when they feel their newly created property rights are violated (a process known as investor–state dispute settlement, or ISDS).

[...]

A foreign firm can sue the U.S. government in private arbitration for cash rewards if it thinks government actions violate the new rights and privileges granted by TPP, but domestic American firms have no such recourse in U.S. courts. Two arbitrators can, in effect, undermine decisions of Congress and the president, ordering billions of dollars in payments for their lost investment value and guesstimated lost profits.


Full text of the TPP can be found at this link.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Walt
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It's an agreement among:
• Australia
• Brunei
• Canada
• Chile
• Japan
• Malaysia
• Mexico
• New Zealand
• Peru
• Singapore
• United States
• Vietnam

China is not in on it, so it's a counterweight to China, and any negative effects should be unnoticeable compared to China's effects.

The biggest economies (I think) are the US, Canada, Mexico, and Japan, which we're already integrated with, so this is not a big change.

The agreement mostly frees trade from the US, to the tune of about one trillion dollars.
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Chris Binkowski
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I guess I'm wondering: what's wrong with the trade policies we have now? The US already has huge deficits as it is; why would other nations want to change that?
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Sarxis wrote:
I guess I'm wondering: what's wrong with the trade policies we have now? The US already has huge deficits as it is; why would other nations want to change that?
So they get a bigger piece of the action. If china is hogging most of that deficit, it isn't helping out the other partners.
 
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Andrew Bartosh

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I'm even further behind on this than I normally am, but as I recall, there were some pretty serious concerns about IP laws and TPP.

https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp
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G Rowls
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It favors Corporation rights over everyone elses.
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Robert Wesley
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yuk It 'usurps/abrogated' our "standards" with LACK of/for such as theirs, and so being considered 'acceptable' because; $$$$$.
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