Sebastian Zarzycki
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Currently, if you rate the game, it automatically goes into your collection. From the user point of view, it makes little sense - I just want to rate the game, not to build my collection. From the system point of view, it makes *some* sense, as the relation had to be maintained (though I'm not sure why rating isn't tied just to the game and user and has to be tied to a collection item as well).

This one thing makes maintaining the collection pretty awkward. I'm not sure if it was discussed before, but I feel like there's a pretty easy solution to that problem:

Introduce the "played" status.

And I'm not talking about the "log play", this is something else. This is meant for very detailed tracking and statistics. But if I rate the game, it means that I've played it, but not necessarily want it on my wishlist or I own it. What if rating would just add the game to the collection (as it is now), but set the "played" status automatically? If I had this status at my disposal, I could attach it to all the games I've rated, but don't want to own. I could see the games I've played, by setting this status, but they won't be mixed with other titles, as I could filter them out.

Thoughts?
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
I think your confusing a gaming being added to your collection and games being marked as owned.
when its "added to your collection" its just being connected to your game tab in your profile, its not trying to say its part of your physical collection
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
Define "my collection" using real world terms. Are these things you've once seen?
 
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
added to your collection (of games you've connected to your profile)

when looking at your profile you see the title "collection summery" think of it not as your collection of games but rather a collection of your thoughts on games; it happens to include games you've marked as owned but also games you've commented on, games you wish to get, games your selling, games you currently think are hot, and so on.
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
mafman6 wrote:
I think your confusing a gaming being added to your collection and games being marked as owned.
when its "added to your collection" its just being connected to your game tab in your profile, its not trying to say its part of your physical collection


Agreed, the official way to see your actual, physical collection is to mark those games as 'Owned.' Any game can be rated, even one that you haven't played before.
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
The term "collection" is the subject of many threads. For BGG purposes, your collection is all the games you have marked "owned", have wishlisted, have rated, have logged, have subscribed, etc, i.e. games you are in some way interested in.
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
rattkin wrote:
Thoughts?

Yes: it's the unfortunate consequence of most languages not having an easy word to describe the whole of games you've interacted with on the site. To us humans a 'collection' is something we physically own, true; but ownership is but a subset of the whole as far as the BGG system is concerned. There are words like 'repository' and 'database' of course, but these are quite jargonesque and might raise issues all their own. So for actual, physical ownership BGG uses the 'Owned' flag, and this doesn't get set automatically in any way. In short, what you want already exists here. It's just not labelled in the way you'd expect it.

Other sites face a similar problem: LibraryThing calls the 'collection' the 'bookshelf', and I vividly remember running into the same problem you reported, so getting confused by the fact that 'adding something to your bookshelf' doesn't mean that you actually own it.


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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
I think we're missing the point. Let me rephrase:



Let me select a "Played" status in here and I'll be a happy man. I don't mind having a "collection" of played-but-not-owned games. Just help me organize it in the most straightforward way.
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
Colour me confused as to the flag's purpose then. I've tried re-interpreting your OP with that knowledge, but no: it seems to mingle various interpretations which do not coincide with the title of this thread.

So, if you would be so kind to redo from start: What good would having a flag 'Played' do, and under which circumstances would it be set?
 
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
It seems that whenever you "interact" with a game through the website, it is added to your collection. That's ok, if it has to be like that. But I want to have more fine-grained control over the REASON the game landed in my "collection". I'm playing hundreds of games over the year. Only a fraction of them ends up on my shelf. If I rate them, I want them to have a specific status of "Played", either assigned manually or automatically - so that I can then filter them out or in, for various lists.

I'm kind of confused as to why would you ask about the pros of having "Played" flag. A game that is in your collection but without a status, is a ghost. A game with a status carry a very specific and sortable/filterable information. If I end up with games I don't own (in my collection), let me mark them in such a way, that they would resemble the reality.

I'll change the title of the OP, perhaps I've indeed started from the wrong side.
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Re: Adding to collection is (imho) deeply flawed.
This appears to be a one_more_box thread. See for instance:

"I've played this game"
Mark games as played or unplayed
Mark game as "played" without recording a specific play

I cannot agree that it is "deeply flawed" to allow users a cohesive virtual collection.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Kaffedrake wrote:

I cannot agree that it is "deeply flawed" to allow users a cohesive virtual collection.


If it was cohesive, then I'd agree with you. Unfortunately, it isn't.

BGG has tremendous amount of content, value and functionalities but being user friendly and easy to understand/work with isn't one of its virtues. In my mind, using this status would be a step in the right direction.
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ah ok I think I get it.
I guess I just don't see the usefulness.
The status of a game is kinda the relation of you owning the game with varying levels of wanting to own it.

I guess I don't see a game in my collection as a ghost because to be there it needs some type of notation (like a rating or something) from me which any of those things would supply more info then just having it marked played.
 
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You can put whatever information you want in private comments or what not. But you cannot filter it or sort by it.

Do I honestly have to convince people that "played" status is one of the first thing people think of when approaching BGG collection? It feels so weird to me.
 
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rattkin wrote:
You can put whatever information you want in private comments or what not. But you cannot filter it or sort by it.

making your own tags to filter with would be useful I guess, I just wouldn't have thought of using one called "played"

rattkin wrote:
Do I honestly have to convince people that "played" status is one of the first thing people think of when approaching BGG collection? It feels so weird to me.

I think its the fact that for most people here if they have given a rating to a game its essentially marked at played. So its not the fact thats having marked as such isnt useful its that a rating says we've played it AND this is what we think of it.
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mafman6 wrote:
its that a rating says we've played it.


Really? Where?

I think that a lot of advanced users are just so accustomed to making assumptions or twisting the site logic to suit their purposes. That's ok. But only after the simple, common problems are solved first. I don't think that anyone would argue with me, when I say, that "played" is much more common (let's put usefulness aside for now) than, say, "previously owned".
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rattkin wrote:
It seems that whenever you "interact" with a game through the website, it is added to your collection. That's ok, if it has to be like that.

Ok.

Quote:
But I want to have more fine-grained control over the REASON the game landed in my "collection". I'm playing hundreds of games over the year. Only a fraction of them ends up on my shelf.

Ok...?

Quote:
If I rate them, I want them to have a specific status of "Played", either assigned manually or automatically - so that I can then filter them out or in, for various lists.

I guess I still don't quite see it. Assuming that you don't rate before playing, adding a rate automatically implies 'Played'. Correct? That leaves us with the situation in which you don't want to add a rate just yet, but still register the game as 'Played'. Frankly, the system already allows you to do this, even sort games according to having been 'Played'... but you must use the logging system. Hear me out, please, before you counter that you don't want to use that.

You see, you don't need to do anything fancy to register play logs. If you don't care about the date, amount of actual plays in one session, or where you played with whom it will take you literally only two mouse clicks to register a play. (It takes more for marking a game as 'Owned'!) After that you can ask the system for 'Played' games using the appropriate drop-down box in the Filter>> window of any collection view.

If an explicit 'Played' flag was added given the way things currently work, you would create confusion as to what was meant in case someone logged plays, but did not turn on the 'Played' flag. And if logging plays automatically causes 'Played' to become active, then combined with the previous conclusion that rating also implies 'Played', the flag is just useless UI estate.

I repeat: what you want is already possible, it's just not labelled in the way you'd expect it.
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rattkin wrote:
mafman6 wrote:
its that a rating says we've played it.

Really? Where?

In the fact that nearly everyone here feels thats how you know what to rate a game.

every little tool here is to be used to best serve the user but I don't and have never needed to mark anything "played". Perhaps what your looking for would be a better connection to your collection and the logging of plays?
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cymric wrote:
Colour me confused as to the flag's purpose then. I've tried re-interpreting your OP with that knowledge, but no: it seems to mingle various interpretations which do not coincide with the title of this thread.

So, if you would be so kind to redo from start: What good would having a flag 'Played' do, and under which circumstances would it be set?


Just yesterday i came across a blog post where the author was writing about reducing his "Pile of Shame": his board games he owned but had never played. This flag would allow him to keep track of his Pile of Shame:

http://w-g-r.blogspot.de/2016/10/reducing-piles-of-shame.htm...
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cymric wrote:

You see, you don't need to do anything fancy to register play logs.

(...)

After that you can ask the system for 'Played' games using the appropriate drop-down box in the Filter>> window of any collection view.


And would it hurt if I could flip that status myself, without going the log play route? I mean, it's already there, right? It's kept in model, it's stored in DB. It's just an UI issue. I don't want to log play the same way you don't mark the game as "just purchased". You primarily care that you own it.

cymric wrote:

I repeat: what you want is already possible, it's just not labelled in the way you'd expect it.


I repeat: which is the pure definition of an obvious UX problem.

--

Anyway, that's enough from me. I don't see a point in discussing who and how uses the site. I'm merely stating that I would like to use it in a certain way and I currently cannot. The rest is not for me to decide on / argue about.
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rattkin wrote:
I don't see a point in discussing who and how uses the site.

To make it better for all! This is worth arguing about because the first step to a good solution is a proper problem statement.
Typically when someone has a complaint like this ether they missed something or others feel the same way and just haven't spoken up. It took half of this discussion so far to figure that this is probably about room for improvement between game status and logged plays, that theres no happy medium.
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rattkin wrote:
And would it hurt if I could flip that status myself, without going the log play route? I mean, it's already there, right? It's kept in model, it's stored in DB. It's just an UI issue. I don't want to log play the same way you don't mark the game as "just purchased". You primarily care that you own it.
Yes, because the ability already exists. By adding a played flag, you're creating a redundancy. I mean, it's already there, right? Just log the play, then you can easily filter for "played" games in your "collection".
 
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jdw734 wrote:
rattkin wrote:
And would it hurt if I could flip that status myself, without going the log play route? I mean, it's already there, right? It's kept in model, it's stored in DB. It's just an UI issue. I don't want to log play the same way you don't mark the game as "just purchased". You primarily care that you own it.
Yes, because the ability already exists. By adding a played flag, you're creating a redundancy. I mean, it's already there, right? Just log the play, then you can easily filter for "played" games in your "collection".

I don't want to record a play though.

For instance... I've played Power Grid 60ish times. I've played all the maps. All my plays are recorded under the base game. I want to mark the expansions as played without recording a play for them.

It's not a difficult concept.

Then, if I apply the "unplayed" filter to my collection, things I've actually used will stop showing up.

Also, there are lots of games I played in years past that predate my BGG days that I'd likewise like to mark off without having to record a fake play.
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I wouldn't add play either. When I've played a game but not yet rated or commented, I just click "add to collection", then "save". Done.

A permalink to a view of my collection excluding games that are rated or marked as "want to play" shows me all of the games I have yet to play and/or rate, a sort of to do list. At least for me, it's unlikely that I'd forget why a specific entry is in that list.
 
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rattkin wrote:
And would it hurt if I could flip that status myself, without going the log play route? I mean, it's already there, right? It's kept in model, it's stored in DB.

We don't know if it is explicitly modelled: for all we know it could be a query 'on the fly' which merely checks for logged_plays > 0. Aldie's the one you should ask.

Quote:
It's just an UI issue. I don't want to log play the same way you don't mark the game as "just purchased". You primarily care that you own it.

But on the same note, the solution I presented does what you want to do as you don't log any plays to begin with.

Quote:
I repeat: which is the pure definition of an obvious UX problem.

I also repeat: having such redundancy would create its own UX problem. There would need to be two seperate filters at least: 'Played' and 'Logged Plays' because there are many who do log plays. You just think your problem outweighs this one, because it means you get to do something you want, so it can't be bad.

Quote:
Anyway, that's enough from me. I don't see a point in discussing who and how uses the site. I'm merely stating that I would like to use it in a certain way and I currently cannot. The rest is not for me to decide on / argue about.

That's fine. But your OP clearly indicated you were interested in 'thoughts'. Apparently you weren't: you just wanted to have your way.
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