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Ascension X: War of Shadows» Forums » Variants

Subject: Another "Can I combine this with..." rss

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Orlando Neto
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Hello guys,

this game doens't combine that good with other sets. but I was studing the Immortal Heroes set. The Event and soul gems could add some cool stuff without making too much diference in the ballance of day and night.
what do you guys think?
Maybe Storm of souls Too. the other sets have lots of different mechanics that will dilute even more.
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B-Rad
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I'd think it would definitely dilute the portal deck a lot less if the earlier small expansions were used. And having the Soul Gems deck handy could definitely help tip the balance of Day/Night in the center row depending on how they help the player...also, they wouldn't clog decks like the Energy shards of Darkness Unleashed. I would think that either Immortal Heroes or Return of the Fallen would be a decent choice if all you are wanting to do is expand the portal deck and add some slightly different mechanics in the mix.
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Orlando Neto
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deeth82 wrote:
I'd think it would definitely dilute the portal deck a lot less if the earlier small expansions were used. And having the Soul Gems deck handy could definitely help tip the balance of Day/Night in the center row depending on how they help the player...also, they wouldn't clog decks like the Energy shards of Darkness Unleashed. I would think that either Immortal Heroes or Return of the Fallen would be a decent choice if all you are wanting to do is expand the portal deck and add some slightly different mechanics in the mix.
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That's what I was thinking. event and soul gems will not dillute the deck that much. This way I'll have event, soul gem, unite, and day/night mechanics in the same game.
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Jean-Yves Moyen
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Yep, I just got WoS and was thinking in the same line.
Basically, the night/day mechanism does not really suffer from being diluted. If, say, only 2/3 of the center deck is from WoS, that means around 4 cards in the center row (barring other variants¹) that are Day or Night, but that is sufficient to create a Day or a Night without being too random…
Plus, it also adds the possibility to buy "neutral" cards and might give a bit more control on the changes between Day and Night during your turn.

Comparatively, for example, mixing Dreamscape would dilute Insight too much and that may be a problem.
Similarly, mixing DoC might dilute Rally (because not enough multi-faction cards) too much.

So, yes, I think that WoS a a good set to mix and you want to mix it with another set that does support dilution, and IH was meant to be mixed with a large set (ie the amount of Soul Gems related cards is meant for mixing), so that should work nicely (keep us updated after trying!)
Note, however, that events + Day/Night might turn some cards into crazy powerhouse (well, not really a problem…) Maybe it's safer to remove the events first…

DU is probably not a good idea to mix in as it is meant to be used with RoV (Energy). Diluting Energy would make it quite useless.

RotF could also be mixed without troubles, its new mechanism was Fate, but again it's a small set meant to be mixed with a big set, so that should be correct.

Actually, rather than Day/Night, I think the largest problem with mixing WoS is to dilute the "dual cost" cards. I still haven't played WoS, but it looks like dual cost cards are meant to punish players that play pure Rune (or pure Combat). Diluting them might give back more strength to the "pure one resource" strategies.

¹ I'm usually playing with a "future market" variant using a 3×4 center row (instead of 1×6) with increased (+1/+2) cost for mid/top lines, and sliding down columns when buying. But here also, having 8 out of 12 cards that ar Day or Night is totally good, imho.
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Orlando Neto
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I think it will works fine. events are good and powercombos are kind hard with this set (IMHO).
I've ordered IH plus WoS but it will take like a month to put my hands into it...

After some play I'll share my thoughts.
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ackmondual
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Jym77 wrote:
Yep, I just got WoS and was thinking in the same line.
Basically, the night/day mechanism does not really suffer from being diluted. If, say, only 2/3 of the center deck is from WoS, that means around 4 cards in the center row (barring other variants¹) that are Day or Night, but that is sufficient to create a Day or a Night without being too random…
Plus, it also adds the possibility to buy "neutral" cards and might give a bit more control on the changes between Day and Night during your turn.

Comparatively, for example, mixing Dreamscape would dilute Insight too much and that may be a problem.
Similarly, mixing DoC might dilute Rally (because not enough multi-faction cards) too much.

So, yes, I think that WoS a a good set to mix and you want to mix it with another set that does support dilution, and IH was meant to be mixed with a large set (ie the amount of Soul Gems related cards is meant for mixing), so that should work nicely (keep us updated after trying!)
Note, however, that events + Day/Night might turn some cards into crazy powerhouse (well, not really a problem…) Maybe it's safer to remove the events first…

DU is probably not a good idea to mix in as it is meant to be used with RoV (Energy). Diluting Energy would make it quite useless.

RotF could also be mixed without troubles, its new mechanism was Fate, but again it's a small set meant to be mixed with a big set, so that should be correct.
I'll have to wait for WoS to get released on iOS. In the meantime, the only mechanic that really suffers when diluted is the Insight from Dreamscape. When I play DS and want more prominence with Insight, I use that and no more than 1 to 2 other expansions. If I just want to explore DS card synergies with other sets knowing full well Insight may never come into any meaningful play, I go hog wild with ALL expansions.
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Chad Ackerman
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Immortal Heroes is one of the best expansions to combine with any of the sets, really. It's so versatile. Although, I usually just take the cards with FATE and "Soul Gem gaining" abilities, rather than throwing in the whole set. Also, Orb of Nyx is just too easy to abuse (even if it is hella fun).
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Orlando Neto
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Just played it today and was a blast. couldn't resist and played with everything mixed.
It's really shines with all diferent things like events, trophies and of course soul gems.

Just played one game and will try more. played with de d6 variant and was a really nice game with lots of decisions to make.
the night/day was awesome. some turns you just want to change the phase and hope you get the right card. wasn't that random. with one card it can be any of the status and this makes the game really fun.

Now I'll try only with soul gems cards and events. I love to kill monsters, so I'll keep them.
 
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ackmondual
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I just tried this on iOS. I have yet to play this combined, but from my impressions with playing the sets prior to this combined... all in or 2 to 3 at once:

I think WoS with DS, DoC, and RU could make for some interesting games.

My issue with playing any of them singleton are:
RU
without dilution, "offending power creep card" like Adayu The Serene, that 7/5 e/h that multi-Unites into free cards from the CR, that 7/4 l/h Cetra card that acquires heroes from the CR, or that 7/5 v/h that can kill stuff in the Void after Transforming can be bloody powerful, and much easier to get to. I've seen the 7/5 e/h acquire 1/4 to 3/4 of the entire Portal deck for some of the IRL games!

DoC
Hmm, I don't think I had any major beefs with this alone

DS
Insight is TOO prominent. It's an Insight-palooza

WoS
Perhaps time will tell, especially when I get to know the cards and this set better, but I feel too much changing between night and day is a bit of a hassle.

Oh...
RoV + DU
When there aren't any sets sans Treasure, Treasure is flooding from the Portal deck, and them being very prominent means all Energize cards are far more powerful than otherwise. I guess there's nothing really wrong with this perse, like a player who manages to get l/h Unites to trigger, but it feels less special when Energize is always triggering, or at higher power levels for those with dynamic Energize levels.
 
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Jean-Yves Moyen
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I haven't played all the sets yet (heavily played years 1-3 but not much after that), but I kinda agree with your analysis…

* Chronicle of the Godslayer + Return of the Fallen (year 1)
is very cool, and still my reference. I still kinda find that Reclamax is too powerful (because you can't get your Mechana deck blocked by banishment) and Combustsion Idol also (because you easily trigger it and 6 cards/turn is huge), and that leads me to play Mechana more than I should (because I usually buy these on spot to avoid a Mechana powerhouse).

* Storm of Souls + Immortal Heroes (year 2)
is also very cool. It tends to be more AP-prone both with the soul gems (you cannot plan your turn in advance) and the more dynamic constructs (destroy to get effect). So, it's probably better with fewer players, but it is very cool for 2 players.

* Rise of Vigil + Darkness Unleashed (year 3)
energy is way too important in that one, and the game sort of turn into "buy cards with treasure or cards that produce energy" instead of actually building a deck.

* Realms Unraveled (first solo set)
played it a bit. Seems interesting, even the loosing players tend to be able to do nice combos and have fun. I agree that some cards are really too powerful (last time I transformed Vir [acquire all heroes from CR into you hand], that was just silly…)
Still seems interesting as the early game is full of meaningful choices and everybody has fun even if loosing.

* Dawn of Champion
I fear that the choice of Champion before the games starts could direct your game too much and reduce meaningful choices in the early game (focus on your faction, the rest doesn't matter), plus the risk of not seeing your faction (should be limited with multi-faction cards). I might come with ideas to have payers choosing champions mid-game in order to have a bit of choice and competition on that point…
I also find that the champions are way too similar.

* DreamScape
I also fear that Insight might become too prominent, like Energy in RoV+DU. If the game turns into "buy cards that produce insight or add to your dreamscape", that's going to be boring. With 2/3 of cards (iirc) falling into that category, that may either be an insight-fest or still keep choices on which insight card to buy…
It might be a set worth diluting for the sake of diminishing insight (but at the risk of making it rarer hence even more valuable and "grab on sight")

* War of Shadows
I'm pretty interested in that one. I feel that the day/night change is interesting as you do have some degree of control on it. Making the play/buy order important is a good idea imho. It might add some AP, but it creates more choices…
I also like the dual cost (rune+combat) cards as I tend to see a lot of "runes only" decks and this forces to keep a bit of variety.

We seem to have some shared analysis on the sets… So I'm very interested in any experiment you do of mixing sets to achieve a better gaming experience cool
 
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