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Subject: A question for people who own both this and The Gallerist rss

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Peter Frye
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I've been looking to add a heavy Euro into my collection. If you could only have one of these two games, which would it be?
 
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Amos Cai
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I own both but I've only played Gallerist 2p twice and Vinhos 3p once.

My initial impressions are that Gallerist is more unique with the "kickout" actions, though I'm not sure about the scalability of it (more players means more "kickout" actions and I'm not entirely sure how that plays out in terms of length, and affecting tactics/strategy).

Vinhos had the bank which was unique, but that's no longer present in Vinhos 2016 vintage. The wine fair ties in decently with the theme, but as a mechanism is not that unique imho.

Theme and artwork-wise is probably equal in my opinion because the designer and the artist are same for both. Having said that, I think Vital does a great job, which extends to the descriptions in the rulebook, etc. I especially love the "wine stains" by Ian on the box and in the rulebook for Vinhos.

It's very premature but if I had a choice now, I think I would choose the Gallerist.
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Jeff Young
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We just finished another game of Vinhos Deluxe edition. We also have (and have played) The Gallerist. We were struck by how much we enjoyed the new Vinhos...a bit more streamlined, but the complexity does not suffer at all. We already liked the original Vinhos, but this new version is more intuitive. We like both games a lot, but I think I'd give the slight nod to Vinhos.

Stay tuned for Lisboa. Love me some Lacerda!
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D Clevenger
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I've played Vinhos numerous times. I've only played The Gallerist four times. IMHO Vinhos is the better game. There is an engine to set up. There is deep strategy that ties together really well with the theme.

The Gallerist is a good game and I enjoy it but it doesn't flow together as well as Vinhos. The end game scoring seems disjointed from what you do during the game.

So to answer your question I would pick Vinhos and it's not really close.
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Jason Brown
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Jefferoni wrote:
Stay tuned for Lisboa. Love me some Lacerda!


Oh yeah!
 
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Cliff Fisher
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I'll reserve judgement until I get a chance to play Vinhos with 3-4 players... but I really, really enjoy The Gallerist, and after a learning 2 player game and a solo game, i could see myself liking Vinhos as much or more.
 
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Jim Webb
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Both games are good and I am happy both are in my collection, but if I had to choose between the two I would pick Vinhos.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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ceh245 wrote:
My initial impressions are that Gallerist is more unique with the "kickout" actions, though I'm not sure about the scalability of it (more players means more "kickout" actions and I'm not entirely sure how that plays out in terms of length, and affecting tactics/strategy).

Gallerist is best with the full 4. Player count poll reflects that pretty clearly.
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mfl134
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Sleepy_pf wrote:
I've been looking to add a heavy Euro into my collection. If you could only have one of these two games, which would it be?


Between these I'd get Vinhos.

But if you are just adding one heavy euro, get a Splotter instead.
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Jon Cheung
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I own and have played The Gallerist four times - twice solo, one two player game, one four player game. I've yet to receive my copy of Vinhos Deluxe but I played the game solo on Tabletopia twice back when the Kickstarter began. I have never played the 2010 version, only the 2016 Special Vintage.

Based on my plays, I'd go with Vinhos over The Gallerist personally. I love both games but The Gallerist is far more fiddly and was difficult for the players involved to always keep track of what they needed to do. There are so many little bonuses etc to handle that it can be dauntingly tough for people to remember all the actions they need to complete and to understand how the whole engine of the game works, despite the fact that the bonuses are quite thematic if you really think about each one (but somehow still not instinctively intuitive for people to pick up).

For me, the new version of Vinhos is perfect. There are lots of things going on in the game but I feel like everything is intuitive and much more straightforward versus The Gallerist. The theme and the mechanics of the game bleed seamlessly into each other in a more readily understandable way. The Gallerist had some ingenious and innovative ideas (the influence track and the kick-out actions) but Vinhos just feels like a smoother play to me, one that moves faster, requires less rules referencing, is more streamlined and has a more easily understood implementation of theme in the mechanics.

I can't speak for the original but the new 2016 version at least is much lighter than The Gallerist. It feels somewhere between medium and heavy versus The Gallerist which I'd firmly call a heavy game. That doesn't diminish from the game at all though imo ad the cycle of the game feels right and the game has just the right amount of meat to it as is for me. Something about the cycle in Vinhos just gives me that "crack addiction" feeling I get very rarely as I produce more wine for the fairs and market and hope for good weather in the following year.

I haven't played it since the Kickstarter, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to start a game with minimal refresher when my physical copy comes. I'm especially excited because I feel like it has the potential to get to the table way more than Gallerist. And bonus - when I feel ready to try a heavier version, I can always flip the board and give the original a go! In short - I do think both games are awesome but if picking one, I'd go with Vinhos, hands down.
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mfl134
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Sleepy_pf wrote:
I've been looking to add a heavy Euro into my collection. If you could only have one of these two games, which would it be?


though honestly, which theme do you like more? Do you want to build up a vineyard or invest in art. the games match the themes well and you should pick what interests you more.
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Peter Frye
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mfl134 wrote:
Sleepy_pf wrote:
I've been looking to add a heavy Euro into my collection. If you could only have one of these two games, which would it be?


though honestly, which theme do you like more? Do you want to build up a vineyard or invest in art. the games match the themes well and you should pick what interests you more.


The Gallerist definitely has me at theme, but mechanics matter more to me. This gent mentioning his 'crack addiction' feeling while playing Vinhos is pretty persuasive - and it looks like I could get it to the table more.

One thing I worry about is that the weather system in Vinhos seems so random. Which game do you think supports better strategic play?

Btw, I looked into the Splotter games as you mentioned as well. Thanks for that suggestion. The one problem I find with them is that the themes are going to be a little dry for my group of friends, though Food Chain Magnate looks like great fun. Lacerda games just look so much classier.
 
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David G. Cox Esq.
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Sleepy_pf wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
Sleepy_pf wrote:
I've been looking to add a heavy Euro into my collection. If you could only have one of these two games, which would it be?


though honestly, which theme do you like more? Do you want to build up a vineyard or invest in art. the games match the themes well and you should pick what interests you more.


The Gallerist definitely has me at theme, but mechanics matter more to me. This gent mentioning his 'crack addiction' feeling while playing Vinhos is pretty persuasive - and it looks like I could get it to the table more.

One thing I worry about is that the weather system in Vinhos seems so random. Which game do you think supports better strategic play?

Btw, I looked into the Splotter games as you mentioned as well. Thanks for that suggestion. The one problem I find with them is that the themes are going to be a little dry for my group of friends, though Food Chain Magnate looks like great fun. Lacerda games just look so much classier.


the weather is totally random. You can play a strategy that relies on good weather or you can play a more conservative strategy that can allow for meteorolgical set-backs. I like the weather as it adds an element of chaos. Working out how to deal with bad weather makes the game more challenging.

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Jeff Young
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But don't forget, the weather affects everyone equally. And once you have the forecast, you can make some tactical adjustments accordingly for that year (round).

But what do I know? I got my ass handed to me just last weekend by my girlfriend...and we were playing in a local winery. Maybe consumed too much wine, and the resident canines were very distracting. Did I mention the governor was there?surprise
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mfl134
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Jefferoni wrote:
But don't forget, the weather affects everyone equally. And once you have the forecast, you can make some tactical adjustments accordingly for that year (round).

But what do I know? I got my ass handed to me just last weekend by my girlfriend...and we were playing in a local winery. Maybe consumed too much wine, and the resident canines were very distracting. Did I mention the governor was there?surprise


Equally in value, but definitely can have a very uneven effect. For example, the weather affects you more if you have more running estates. (And especially if it results in wine not being created for that estate.)

But as it has been stated, you can take risks and hope the weather comes at the right times for you, and you can do things to help mitigate misfortune.
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Nicola Bocchetta
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ceh245 wrote:

Vinhos had the bank which was unique, but that's no longer present in Vinhos 2016 vintage. The wine fair ties in decently with the theme, but as a mechanism is not that unique imho.


Yes, but on the reverse side of the board you can play the original 2010 version, with the bank.
 
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Nicola Bocchetta
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I have yet to receive my copy of Vinhos, but I can take a fact-oriented approach:

- Vinhos is an action selection game, just as The Gallerist
- With Vinhos, you get 2 versions of the game, and can get the whole bunch of kistarter expansions (though I'd be wary of them as usually many ks exp are playtested too little; anyway I usually trust Vital Lacerda)
- The Gallerist allows solo play
- From a thematic point of view, both games are quite thematic, as usually most of Vital games are
- From a mechanic point of view, The gallerist has kicked out actions, while Vinhos is more like "build your engine". The Gallerist has a more opportunistic gameplay (though you can use reknown cubes in Vinhos).
- Vinhos 2010 was the first of Vital Lacerda's designs, so the Gallerist deisng is "more experienced", though the 2016 version of Vinhos incorporates fixes for the complaints to the original game (mainly "too complex").
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Magic Pink
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I say The Gallerist
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mfl134
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Faso74it wrote:

- The Gallerist allows solo play


and Vinhos allows solo play.
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Kyle
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If you give me a week or so I'll get back to you, I've okayed more than 40 games of the gallerist though, absolutely love that game. Common complaints seen to length (bogus, it is 30 min per player tops), and lack of engine building (also bogus, there is definitely an engine). The gallerist looks to be a whole lot more subtle of a game at a glance, it is very opaque. This opacity is a reason i feel prior don't think it is 'as heavy' as Vitals others, given you can't trek the exact outcome of your actions long term (which means no perfect analysis, which means a bit less brain drain I suppose)

Edit: The Wife and I did 2 rounds of the 2016 tonight, safe to say she is hooked. She also greatly loves the gallerist. The head space is different, a bit more cogs, but also delightfully simple mechanically (Vital tends to do simpler mechanics, which is a good thing, not the bloated crap). I'd say there is definitely room for both. We'll get to 2010 after we get a good handle on the 'streamlined' one and make a decision about which edition.

mfl134 wrote:
Sleepy_pf wrote:
I've been looking to add a heavy Euro into my collection. If you could only have one of these two games, which would it be?




Between these I'd get Vinhos.

But if you are just adding one heavy euro, get a Splotter instead.


I can't see what splotter brings to the table except a cult fanbase. Their big hit (fcm) has nothing on Vitals designs except a higher price tag (and much less visually pleasing game).
 
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Rupert Defossez
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the gallerist
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Richard
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Vinhos 2010 -> Gallerist -> Vinhos 2016

Vinhos'10 just speaks to me and is a gem of cruel and thematic game design. It also plays buttery smoothly. I think Gallerist is a solid game and also quite stunning. I have two knocks against it. The matrix mini-game does not feel integrated as well as in Vital's other games like Vinhos and, more damaging, there is a higher amount of bookkeeping per action. While the actions are easy there is a decent amount of shuffling around pieces and tracks for many actions. I never have this in Vinhos and this allows me to just become engrossed in the game instead of the mechanisms.
 
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