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Aeon's End» Forums » General

Subject: Underwhelming component quality rss

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Andreas W.
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I have been fortunate to get a first look at the game at its booth in Essen. While the gameplay sounded like a lot of fun and I really liked the artwork, the components have been underwhelming at best. The tokens and cards felt cheap, the life track dials flimsy.

Considering we are talking about a 50 euro card game the component quality made me not buying the game. I just couldn't warrant the asked price tag.

I am really wondering why I haven't read something about this on BGG yet. Am I the only person to find the components underwhelming?
 
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Bradford Lounsberry
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Most of us don't have our copies yet. I'm surprised to hear that the components didn't impress. Other action phase games I've bought have been solid.

Either way, the game is fantastic. The components will be better than my print and play copy for sure.
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James B
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This is very alarming. Perhaps the essen demo isn't using finalized components?
 
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Scott Arnone
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Hulya wrote:
This is very alarming. Perhaps the essen demo isn't using finalized components?


If he's the only one saying it, I wouldn't be alarmed. I've heard people say Yomi cards feel cheap, and they're flat-out amazing. Some people like different things in regard to card-feel.
 
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InkSplat wrote:
Hulya wrote:
This is very alarming. Perhaps the essen demo isn't using finalized components?


If he's the only one saying it, I wouldn't be alarmed. I've heard people say Yomi cards feel cheap, and they're flat-out amazing. Some people like different things in regard to card-feel.


As far as I'm concerned, the only judge I trust for component quality is my hands when they receive the game through mail.
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Andreas W.
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Hulya wrote:
This is very alarming. Perhaps the essen demo isn't using finalized components?

I was thinking the same but then there were plenty of copies to buy at the booth, so why should they show something of lesser quality?

Of course, the dials ending up flimsy at the last day of the fair is probably something one might expect due to heavy usage. But I was talking to the other two guys checking the game out with me and they agreed on the quality aspect, one especially mentioning the tokens feeling cheap. Regarding the cards, I think I just expected them to be thicker than they actually were.

All in all I will wait for a price drop before I buy Aeon's End and I will end up buying it one day because it seems to be a great coop game! I didn't meant to bash on the game, just in case someone got that feeling. I was merely looking for other Essen attendees' opinions on that topic.

By the way, when I told one guy at their booth that I expected the game to be already sold out on Sunday he told me that it kinda flopped on their booth with Kodama being the sleeper hit. That one he said sold out fast.
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Kenneth
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My wife and I demo'd the game at Essen, and thought the component quality was fine - although the life spinners were a bit loose. We did play it with a (very friendly) German fellow, who felt that the card quality was subpar, so your mileage may vary. We always sleeve deckbuilders anyway, so it hopefully won't be an issue for us. Our new German friend ended up saying he would the game anyway, since we had such a great time playing it!
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Jonas Vanschooren
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Anyone that could give a comparison to another game?
Are the cards like in Legendary Encounters , more like in dominion?
Hope they are good enough not to sleeve, I'm not a fan of sleeves personally, the only game I sleeved is legendary encounters.
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Matt Krakoff
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The cards (according to the Kickstarter) are 350 GSM. I don't know what kind of finish is on them though. You don't usually have to shuffle them either (that should help)!

I do want to replace all the cardboard counters. I have another post with some ideas for that.
 
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Travis R. Chance
United States
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Hello, all!

I am a bit surprised at this comment, as the publisher. We have some of the highest card stock for the cards. Where many companies would have made the nemesis and player mats be on a card stock material, we chose a nice sturdy token-like material. The tokens are also above average with regard to thickness and finish--we do not use linen-finish, as it doesn't last, diminishes art quality, and is kind of a sham in terms of it costing more to apply a roller to the material.

The fasteners on the dials can be loose if they are not properly screwed in. We tried about a dozen diff plastic sources for the best option, and this was what we came up with in the end.

Lastly, one should consider the intellectual content of a game when evaluating price. This game, literally, took thousands of hours to design and develop, has a lot of components at this price point with literally hundreds of high quality art assets, and is incredibly well-designed, as vetted by all reviewers thus far.

Hope this helps. I would ask the the OP to consider demo copies being played by, literally, hundreds of people daily (these demos were full at all times during the show) at one of the largest gaming events on the planet may have played some small part in the appearance of the components.
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Matt Krakoff
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Action Phase wrote:
Hello, all!

I am a bit surprised at this comment, as the publisher. We have some of the highest card stock for the cards. Where many companies would have made the nemesis and player mats be on a card stock material, we chose a nice sturdy token-like material. The tokens are also above average with regard to thickness and finish--we do not use linen-finish, as it doesn't last, diminishes art quality, and is kind of a sham in terms of it costing more to apply a roller to the material.

The fasteners on the dials can be loose if they are not properly screwed in. We tried about a dozen diff plastic sources for the best option, and this was what we came up with in the end.

Lastly, one should consider the intellectual content of a game when evaluating price. This game, literally, took thousands of hours to design and develop, has a lot of components at this price point with literally hundreds of high quality art assets, and is incredibly well-designed, as vetted by all reviewers thus far.

Hope this helps. I would ask the the OP to consider demo copies being played by, literally, hundreds of people daily (these demos were full at all times during the show) at one of the largest gaming events on the planet may have played some small part in the appearance of the components.


Glad to hear it! Can't wait to get my hands on it.
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Martti Lauri
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We did get the demo of the game at Essen fair. The gameplay was excellent and very cool, that was the thing why we bought the game. But I do have to say that we also thought hard on it, as 50€ seemed a bit too much for the base game. While the cards seemed nice on touch, somehow I immediately had the click - I need to sleeve this game if we'll buy it.
We did buy the whole shebang in the end - basegame and both expansions, but comparing this 90€ to some other games were you get whole bunch of plastic ontop of the game. It does feel underwhelming. As my wife but it nicely, it would be ok, if the playmat was included, which sadly wasn't.
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Andreas W.
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Paka wrote:
We did buy the whole shebang in the end - basegame and both expansions, but comparing this 90€ to some other games were you get whole bunch of plastic ontop of the game. It does feel underwhelming. As my wife but it nicely, it would be ok, if the playmat was included, which sadly wasn't.

Exactly my thoughts. I have been at the Perditions Mouth booth just before I headed over to check out Aeons's End, maybe that has to do with the underwhelming impression I got. If I would have gotten Aeon's End I would have bought it all but it just felt too expensive for what it offers component wise. And it wouldn't end up on the table soon anyway with the huge backlog my gaming group is currently looking at.

Speaking of the play mat: I liked that a lot, it really seem to add to the game but I also thought 20€ is too much as that is almost half the price of the base game.

By the way I just checked some board game online shop I usually order games at and Aeon's End is already listed there for 40 euro. I think I can wait until it is available there.
 
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Andreas W.
Germany
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Action Phase wrote:
I would ask the the OP to consider demo copies being played by, literally, hundreds of people daily (these demos were full at all times during the show) at one of the largest gaming events on the planet may have played some small part in the appearance of the components.

I am pretty much aware of that fact. But that's also the case for all the other games at the show. So when comparing this to games from other booths it felt underwhelming to the three of us.

Regardless of that I think the game looks like a lot of fun and I really love the artwork! I am pretty sure I will end up getting it once it hits retail for about 40 euros but not for the asking price of 50 euros.
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Naitakal wrote:
Action Phase wrote:
I would ask the the OP to consider demo copies being played by, literally, hundreds of people daily (these demos were full at all times during the show) at one of the largest gaming events on the planet may have played some small part in the appearance of the components.

I am pretty much aware of that fact. But that's also the case for all the other games at the show. So when comparing this to games from other booths it felt underwhelming to the three of us.

Regardless of that I think the game looks like a lot of fun and I really love the artwork! I am pretty sure I will end up getting it once it hits retail for about 40 euros but not for the asking price of 50 euros.


You will have the opportunity to pay less for a game on almost every online retailer, if that's your main concern. The pricetag for Aeon's End is what it is. It doesn't seem too expensive compared to other games, IMO, and the art, backstory, balance, and ideas the game bring on the table are by far superior to any other card game out there. I obviously don't know about the component quality, but what Travis said about the quality of the character mats is also to be taken into account. It's not simple card stock the way the champions from Ascension: Dawn of Champions are. It's a much thicker, token stock that will last much longer.

I personnally don't care about the quality of the tokens as I'm pretty sure I won't use them. I like dice better.

I'm not as concerned with Aeon's End's price as I am with Mystic Vale, which offers much less innovation, interaction, replayability, content, and is still super expensive at MSRP. And that's not even mentioning the expansion.

Also, $20 is pretty standard for an IP playmat.
 
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Travis R. Chance
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Thanks for all of the insights and for sharing your concerns and thoughts. No offense taken at all here. Just trying to share insight from the publisher side of things. We price out games based off of cost of materials (not art, designer percentages, etc). This game for $50 at the base game level is a lot of game. I do not expect the economics of producing a game to be something that is immediately understood from the consumer perspective, of course. Admittedly, it can be a tad frustrating as there is far more that goes into producing a game than volume of components and whether another game with more stuff can be had for a more competitive price. This in no way speaks to the game itself. We are confident this game will be one people not only love but keep in their collections for years to come. In a market of average games, this one has the clout to stand out. Sure, there may be a game with more stuff in it for the same cost (which is more likely to happen with first time publishers undervaluing their product or giving away the farm, as it was), but is it the BETTER game?
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Joe Thompson
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Action Phase wrote:
In a market of average games, this one has the clout to stand out.


But is it a market of average games? My impression at the moment is there are far more good games out there than I can play, so issues like component quality start to become the deciding factor.
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ShallowThought wrote:
Action Phase wrote:
In a market of average games, this one has the clout to stand out.


But is it a market of average games? My impression at the moment is there are far more good games out there than I can play, so issues like component quality start to become the deciding factor.


Mine is that I haven't played anything as good as Aeon's End in a long time. Not trying to be a fanboy here. As a reviewer, I have not rated anything as high as Aeon's End except maybe Seasons and Sentinels of the Multiverse. And Aeon's End removes everything that's wrong with SotM.

The game is FAR above average. Even though it's kind of awkward for the publisher to say so, in this instance, well, he's right.
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Matt Simpson
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ShallowThought wrote:
Action Phase wrote:
In a market of average games, this one has the clout to stand out.


But is it a market of average games? My impression at the moment is there are far more good games out there than I can play, so issues like component quality start to become the deciding factor.


Terraforming Mars seems to be doing fine despite its reported mediocre components.

We felt like this was one of the best games we've ever played during testing, which was with barely any art and some card stock paper along with only 2 nemesises to choose from
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Travis R. Chance
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ShallowThought wrote:
Action Phase wrote:
In a market of average games, this one has the clout to stand out.


But is it a market of average games? My impression at the moment is there are far more good games out there than I can play, so issues like component quality start to become the deciding factor.


Thousands of games come out each year these days. Very few of these even sell through minimum print runs. Fewer still sell more than 100k units, which comprise the "hits" each year. From a publisher vantage, I certainly think this is the case. More people have learned how to bring a game to market, sure, but in doing so the average games, or less so, come at a higher yield.

Just to clarify, not trying to split hairs with anyone here. I just wanted to provide an opinion from the publisher side of things.

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Jeff C
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I am definitely curious to try this game. One thing worth pointing out is that since this is a card based game and the op tested it on Sunday I personally would expect it to be borderline destroyed. I was talking with a friend of mine (codesigner of Dicey Goblins, sorry for shameless plug), and he was telling me how hard it is to judge component quality during a convention because each game sees more use during those 4 days than they will ever see at the hands of a private owner and usually publishers throw the demos in the dumpster when packing up because even the sturdiest game is trashed. So in the case of his Aeon's End, being a card game, the fact that the cards and dials were in rough shape is to be expected on Sunday. If the cards are even remotely close as those in Sentinels of the Multiverse (which I use as a benchmark for quality) then I will be very happy.
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Geek Scribe wrote:
I am definitely curious to try this game. One thing worth pointing out is that since this is a card based game and the op tested it on Sunday I personally would expect it to be borderline destroyed. I was talking with a friend of mine (codesigner of Dicey Goblins, sorry for shameless plug), and he was telling me how hard it is to judge component quality during a convention because each game sees more use during those 4 days than they will ever see at the hands of a private owner and usually publishers throw the demos in the dumpster when packing up because even the sturdiest game is trashed. So in the case of his Aeon's End, being a card game, the fact that the cards and dials were in rough shape is to be expected on Sunday. If the cards are even remotely close as those in Sentinels of the Multiverse (which I use as a benchmark for quality) then I will be very happy.


Interesting. Thanks for sharing, I didn't know about this side of conventions

Funny about SotM, a friend of mine told me the cardstock quality is pretty low with that one. They seem better than Seasons, but still.

My benchmark quality would be Ascension, though.
 
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Tony Brum
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During the kick-starter campaign, one of the achieved stretch goals was for thicker cards....From 275 to 300 GSM. These numbers don't help me because I don't know the thickness of cards in other games. meeple
 
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Michael Klein
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I think this discussion boils down to glossy finish vs. matt / linen finish. This is not an absolute "which is better" discussion, both have their advantages and disadvantages. However, for some people, linen finish just feel better in hand and thus is perceived as being "higher quality".

I was demoing the game for 2 days in Essen, and I was amazed at how well the components were holding up (especially given the number of people eating at the table while playing ), but I did hear that some people would have preferred linen finish.

Let me add one more detail which I found very well done: The cards have white borders on the back, but black borders on the front. Simple, but very effective!
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Thorsten Binder
Germany
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Hexaphim wrote:
My wife and I demo'd the game at Essen, and thought the component quality was fine - although the life spinners were a bit loose. We did play it with a (very friendly) German fellow, who felt that the card quality was subpar, so your mileage may vary. We always sleeve deckbuilders anyway, so it hopefully won't be an issue for us. Our new German friend ended up saying he would the game anyway, since we had such a great time playing it!


Hey Kenneth
Where you the nice couple from Norway? (If I understood it correctly) - awesome to meet you here again. It was really cool to play with you - I had a lot of fun - thx for that again

To the rest of you guys:
Yes I was complaining about the component quality at the booth a bit and also yes - I ended up buying the game anyway, because it is pretty amazing

To the quality first: The Nemesis tiles, the Charakter dashboards and also the tokens are pretty fine when it comes to thickness. Altough some of the tokens could habe been bigger in diameter (some are pretty flimsy).
The print quality is fine.

But the cards and the breaches though .... They are very thin (at least feel like it - compared to other games), bend easily and damage also easily sadly ( a quick gentle shuffle already damaged some of the corners ) - so I would strongly recommend to sleeve them, or otherwise the game will look a bit rugged after a few games.

The good thing is, that scratched cards will not ruin the game for you, since the backside has a white border - you will not have "marked" cards that way.

Besides that the game is a blast.
Played a couple of Singleplayer games aleady and was very entertained. They have some pretty cool mechanics in this game which I have never seen before. I can only recommend it to everyone. Give it a try.
Sure the price is a bit hefty, but not every company can run print runs with millions of copies to keep the individual price down.

Btw - I was just now done with sleeving all the cards from the expansions + core game. Took me around 500 sleeves

Greetz
Thorsten - a german fellow
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