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Subject: Mythos cards you've removed? rss

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Chris McDonald
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Has any one else removed Mythos cards that they consider unfun? My list:

The cards that make you resolve another Mythos card: In addition to being hugely punishing, this really breaks a lot of the strategy of the game, which is about pacing yourself against the mythos deck - knowing when your reckoning effects might trigger, when a rumor might come out, what omen will be a threat next, etc.

The card that makes every investigator impair their highest ability 3 times: This is crippling and in most cases will make the rest of the game a painful slog to inevitable defeat. If it only affected the lead investigator I could be on board with it.

The card that removes a solved mystery: Again, if this comes out after you've solved a mystery and you don't have enough clues on hand, this makes the rest of the game a painful slog to inevitable defeat. You can avoid this by always holding enough clues in reserve before solving a mystery just in case this card comes out, but I don't think a single Mythos card should warp the game strategy to that degree.
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Driss
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none, it would be heresy.
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Jim Black
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I remove no cards. The whims of the Elder Gods will decide how easy or difficult the game is.
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Joe Browes
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I've removed All For Nothing, a card which is about as far from fun as it's possible to get.

If the elder gods don't like it, they know where to find me.
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Jared
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Interociter wrote:
I've removed All For Nothing, a card which is about as far from fun as it's possible to get.

If the elder gods don't like it, they know where to find me.


Had this come up when I was introducing the game to new players...its going to hide in the ether of space(the box) for the foreseeable future.
 
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Le Roux Van Der Vyver
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Although there was unprecedented levels of rage present when I drew certain Mythos cards...ahem looking at you All for Nothing.
I will also say that nothing was quite so sweet as a Victory in future games despite drawing that card.... That moment when the 2 Clues you chose to keep back instead of pursuing the Mystery too hard save you and your team from certain defeat.

If people want to remove that potential experience from the game, to each their own.

PS. I drew the impair highest skill 3 times as the first Mythos card out, in back to back games. I am shuffling my Mythos cards between games! The first time I drew it I laughed, the second game I laughed manically. Needless to say both games crashed into a terrible defeat, but the ride amazing.

EDIT: fix impair
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Mark Bauer
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cfmcdonald wrote:
Has any one else removed Mythos cards that they consider unfun? My list:

The cards that make you resolve another Mythos card: In addition to being hugely punishing, this really breaks a lot of the strategy of the game, which is about pacing yourself against the mythos deck - knowing when your reckoning effects might trigger, when a rumor might come out, what omen will be a threat next, etc.

The card that makes every investigator impair their highest ability 3 times: This is crippling and in most cases will make the rest of the game a painful slog to inevitable defeat. If it only affected the lead investigator I could be on board with it.

The card that removes a solved mystery: Again, if this comes out after you've solved a mystery and you don't have enough clues on hand, this makes the rest of the game a painful slog to inevitable defeat. You can avoid this by always holding enough clues in reserve before solving a mystery just in case this card comes out, but I don't think a single Mythos card should warp the game strategy to that degree.


All those cards I removed as well. Also removed the Azatoth encounter that does the same as all for nothing.
And I removed the mythos card that takes away 1 of everything (1 item, 1 spell, 1 artifact, 1 sanity, 1 health, 1 whatnot...) Basically comes down to everyone loses everything. thats not punishing thats ruination.

Usually I wait till cards come up during the game before I read them. But with mythos cards, they get skimmed for the really ugly ones first.
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Chad Ries
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I took out all cards that impair, not just mythos cards.

All for nothing stays in. Both times it has come up, I had the clues.

To add a bit more flavor, and fun, and to make the game a tad easier, each starting investigator starts with a random artifact. The story I tell is, their finding of the artifact propelled them in their mission against the Elder Gods.
 
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George Aristides
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None; this sort of bad unforeseen events are the things that force me to adapt my strategy accordingly, and cause me to lose on occasion (making next game's win even sweeter).
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Xelto G
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All for Nothing stays in for me. The ones that go are the ones that cause one or all investigators to impair multiple skills, with no options available to mitigate the effects. It's just not fun to play characters who have been randomly crippled.

Ones that may impair multiple skills, but have some choice involved stay. Sure, impairing multiple skills or drawing a bane is a very nasty choice, but at least it's a choice.
 
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Mark Bauer
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nobody82b wrote:
None; this sort of bad unforeseen events are the things that force me to adapt my strategy accordingly, and cause me to lose on occasion (making next game's win even sweeter).

This brings me to an interesting question.
My hypothesis:
People who tend to leave all the mythos cards in, often play solo or play the game regularly.
People who remove nasty cards tend to have groups or the game hits the table maybe once in a few months.

For me, it's the second category. When me and my group finally find the time to play this (long) game together, I just hate it if (in my opinion) badly designed cards ruin a game night just... because...
"making the next game's win even sweeter" is not a great argument, when the next game is maybe 3 months later.
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Ben Armstrong
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None. The universe is cruel and capricious.goo And I have all the expansions so the odds of seeing any one card is low enough.
 
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Xelto G
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Anduin wrote:
nobody82b wrote:
None; this sort of bad unforeseen events are the things that force me to adapt my strategy accordingly, and cause me to lose on occasion (making next game's win even sweeter).

This brings me to an interesting question.
My hypothesis:
People who tend to leave all the mythos cards in, often play solo or play the game regularly.
People who remove nasty cards tend to have groups or the game hits the table maybe once in a few months.

Well, that doesn't hold true for me, entirely. We usually play once a week or so, but took some of the mythos cards out.

On the other hand, we did it based on whether or not they made the game less fun, not if they were too hard.
 
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Krzysiek Domański
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Anduin wrote:
My hypothesis:
People who tend to leave all the mythos cards in, often play solo or play the game regularly.
People who remove nasty cards tend to have groups or the game hits the table maybe once in a few months.
This an interesting hypothesis.
A bit of data for you: I haven't removed any, while I'm playing about once per two months.
However, I don't select mythos completely at random so the mythos deck rarely can wreck me just by chance.
 
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Trevor Wilson
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At the end of the day it's your game, and you can choose to play it however you wish. Does it break the game if you remove certain cards - not really. A game is meant to be an enjoyable experience, whether solo or shared as a group, so if it works for you then it's fine, if not then leave them all in the game.
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George Aristides
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Anduin wrote:

This brings me to an interesting question.
My hypothesis:
People who tend to leave all the mythos cards in, often play solo or play the game regularly.
People who remove nasty cards tend to have groups or the game hits the table maybe once in a few months.


Yeah I guess that makes sense. If I was to play the game with some players that are relatively new to this sort of games, and I didn't want to discourage them, I might consider taking some cards out or otherwise making the game easier.

Same way that I'd usually play Charlie Kane and give goodies to the other players so that they feel cool and powerful and enjoy the experience more.
 
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Allison Macrae
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We've cut mythos cards based on group consensus as they've come up ("No way, that doesn't seem like fun"), basically cutting the ones that can unexpectedly wreck someone, since having to start from scratch mid game is seldom fun when it comes out of nowhere, especially as we get into the RP aspect of the game and can become attached to our character's stories. Died fighting a deep one? Went mad trying to gain Arcane Insight? These work. Suddenly keeled over and died with no warning from full health...a little less satisfying.

We've cut: "Shuffle a solved mystery", "Impair something 3 times", "The lead investigator loses all health" and "The lead investigator loses all sanity". Oh, we also cut "You lose when the Expedition deck runs out" rumor, as despite the fact that it still cuts off expeditions, it can no longer threaten to end the game, so it basically just turns off expeditions and nothing else.

We don't consider the clue option on most of those to be mitigating, because we would simply rather not have to feel obligated to hoard 2 extra clues all game on the off chance one of three Mythos cards comes up, especially in games where Clues are rare.
 
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Le Roux Van Der Vyver
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Anduin wrote:
For me, it's the second category. When me and my group finally find the time to play this (long) game together, I just hate it if (in my opinion) badly designed cards ruin a game night just... because...
"making the next game's win even sweeter" is not a great argument, when the next game is maybe 3 months later.


Not a great argument in your opinion. Knowing that there is a 1% chance that the next Mythos card can decimate your entire strategy or kill an investigator outright requires more strategic depth of planning. Knowing that the next card won't kill the lead investigator outright would lead me to take bigger risks, bigger rewards, easier wins. I don't win often, I play often, solo and group and I really like it that way. I felt inclined to remove certain Mythos cards when I first started playing, but after about 6 games my opinion changed for the reasons given above and I find that Eldritch "All In" to be a far more rewarding experience.

To each his own, if your group only play it once in a blue moon then tailor the game so that it provides you the best bang for your buck. 7 Billion people probably have different definitions of a "fun night playing board games". I will throw another hypothesis your way, to stir the pot.

People who take out Mythos cards find winning more important than having fun/telling a story.

Any thoughts anyone? Popped into my head at the end.
 
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Jason Walker
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leroux13 wrote:
People who take out Mythos cards find winning more important than having fun/telling a story.

Not for me, personally. I enjoy losing in spectacular fashion about as much as I enjoy winning in spectacular fashion. What I don't enjoy is spending an extra half hour trying to solve the same mystery again, or spending an extra half hour trying to rebuild my investigator to where he can actually do something positive. I would prefer a 'you lose right now' type of card to a 'do it all again' type of card.
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Davy Ashleydale
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So I think it also depends on what someone thinks is a "good story". I love the idea of taking part in a story where the investigators have solved a couple of mysteries, only to have the Ancient One's minions pull a few strings to reverse our progress.

You thought you were doing well? Ha ha ha!! Now you need to solve four mysteries instead of three. In the same amount of time!

That kind of despair feels like a really good story to me and I think it's super thematic. Especially if we can actually pull it off! And I love trying.

On the other hand, I can see that some people wouldn't even think that's a good storytelling device. We have three things to do in order to keep the Ancient One from awakening. Wait, now it's four? Who's writing this TV show? Are they making it up as they go along?
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Chris McDonald
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Thanks for all the responses guys. I see some feel the same as I do, and some definitely do not. For me it's not really a question of how the Mythos cards affect the story, but fun and strategy.

Certain Mythos cards are so far away from the mean in the amount of punishment they dish out that they either (or both):
a) doom you to a 90+% chance of losing, but without actually making you lose immediately. You might have to play another 1-2 hours to actually confirm the loss. To me that's not at all fun. This does not mean (as some have implied/stated) that I can't stand losing. It's fun to take the game down to the wire and lose on the last round because you couldn't quite deal with all the problems coming your way. That's quite a different experience.
b) disrupt one of the core strategic elements of the game,which is pacing/prioritizing your activities against the Mythos deck (this is primarily the 'draw and resolve another' cards). Should I try to shake this Deal now, or can I afford to wait another round because I know a reckoning can't happen yet? Which gates are the primary threats (next on the Omen track), etc.
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Reid
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Anduin wrote:
nobody82b wrote:
None; this sort of bad unforeseen events are the things that force me to adapt my strategy accordingly, and cause me to lose on occasion (making next game's win even sweeter).

This brings me to an interesting question.
My hypothesis:
People who tend to leave all the mythos cards in, often play solo or play the game regularly.
People who remove nasty cards tend to have groups or the game hits the table maybe once in a few months.

For me, it's the second category. When me and my group finally find the time to play this (long) game together, I just hate it if (in my opinion) badly designed cards ruin a game night just... because...
"making the next game's win even sweeter" is not a great argument, when the next game is maybe 3 months later.


Well said! I've gone so far as to pull all of the tentacle cards for this very reason. I really like the designers' idea to label the cards the way they did. My group is WAY too casual for the kinds of shenanigans those cards pull.
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Mark Bauer
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leroux13 wrote:
To each his own, if your group only play it once in a blue moon then tailor the game so that it provides you the best bang for your buck. 7 Billion people probably have different definitions of a "fun night playing board games". I will throw another hypothesis your way, to stir the pot.

People who take out Mythos cards find winning more important than having fun/telling a story.

Any thoughts anyone? Popped into my head at the end.

Your hypothesis is valid but maybe badly worded. It seems like you make "winning" and "having fun" opposites.
While I like winning as much as everyone else, there is no fun in it if it comes to you on a silber tablet. I played EH maybe around 10 times, and I lost ... I think 8 of those 10 times. And I had fun... maybe also 8 out of 10 times, because those 2 come from All for nothing and the lose 1 of everything card.

I mentioned it sometime ago in another thread: What I wish EH would give me is more agency. More choices that makes me feel like I'm part of the story. It doesn't matter if I have to choose between 2 bad things.
- Choose if the lead investigator dies or everyone else has to suffer bad consequences? Great!
- Choose if you become detained or lose all items? There's a story.

In contrast: All for nothing pretends to give you a choice (spend 2 clues or shuffle a solved mystery back). But this is no choice. As soon as you flip the card, the choice is already made for you. If you have 2 clues, you definitely gonna spend it, because the consequences are so harsh. If not, there is nothing else to do.

Mythos cards can be hard! They can even be unfair! That's still fun and true to the game. But what they can't be is disruptive to the game and its gameplay.
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It's definitely a ymmv imo "as long as you have fun" situation, but I'm legitimately surprised at how many people cull their mythos decks. To me part of the fun of any game in this line, whether Arkham, Eldritch, or Elder Sign, is just the absolute chaos it can throw at you, good or bad at any time. I know this might not fit the definition of a fair or balanced game, but we always go into EH knowing that fairness sometimes has very little to do with it and chaos often rules the day. I do enjoy the games that are well balanced and down to the wire, but my more memorable AH/EH games are the ones where things just went absolutely haywire. For us it's what makes AH/EH stand out from other mechanically superior thematic games. But going back to the top point I realize this view might not be shared my most. Just surprised at the commonness is all, as I thought I'd have more compatriots in chaos. :)
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Mark Bauer
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@AstroLad:
Well, to be fair, this is a thread about people who remove mythos cards, and which ones. Of course you find more skimmer here
Overall I would say that we are definitely in the minority of EH players.

But in the end it's nothing more than an adjustment to the difficulty.
Officially, from FFG and the rulebook, if you want to make the game easier, remove all the hard mythos cards.
We don't remove all hard ones, we just remove very specific cards. Nothing more, nothing less
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