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Magic: The Gathering – Arena of the Planeswalkers» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rule Clarification rss

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Lucas Huang
Taiwan
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Hi, I was not able to find the answers for the below questions, could someone help clarify my doubts?

1) Cards like Mind Control, Malevolent Whispers or Jace's Mind Stealer which move an opponent's figure and attack with it, do we consider the targeted figure defined as "Figure you control" ?

1a) As above, Dissension in the Ranks which only allows you to attack with an opponent's figure, for that targeted figure, is it considered as "Figure you control" ?

2) If 1) holds true, cards with the keyword "Figure you control" such as Infernal Plunge, Circle of Flame, or Project Self, can they be cast upon an opponent's figure which is under effect of Mind Control or Malevolent Whispers?

3) Since the zombies brought back to battlefield by Ghoul Vanguard's Wake the Dead lose their characteristics, what color are the zombies?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Joam Feliciano
Puerto Rico
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I read a lot of faqs but that was a while back. I'll try to find the sources with the official answers later, but if I'm not mistaken, they do count as figures you control, and the zombies brought back by Ghoul Vanguard would be black.
 
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Targanth Phelandir
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Lcslenk wrote:
Hi, I was not able to find the answers for the below questions, could someone help clarify my doubts?

1) Cards like Mind Control, Malevolent Whispers or Jace's Mind Stealer which move an opponent's figure and attack with it, do we consider the targeted figure defined as "Figure you control" ?

1a) As above, Dissension in the Ranks which only allows you to attack with an opponent's figure, for that targeted figure, is it considered as "Figure you control" ?

2) If 1) holds true, cards with the keyword "Figure you control" such as Infernal Plunge, Circle of Flame, or Project Self, can they be cast upon an opponent's figure which is under effect of Mind Control or Malevolent Whispers?

3) Since the zombies brought back to battlefield by Ghoul Vanguard's Wake the Dead lose their characteristics, what color are the zombies?

Thanks in advance!


The answer may depend on the specific power used. For example for Jace's Mind Stealer, the power allows you at the end of your turn, to use Abilities, Move and Attack. The power does not specify that you can cast spell cards, therefore you can not cast spells. In addition, since Jace's turn is over, Jace can not cast spells.

Generally I think that while you are temporarily activating a figure, it is not 'Under your Control' for purposes of those types of spells. I may be wrong.
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joel greenfield
Canada
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When you use mind control on a figure, can you use that figure to attack its friendly units?
 
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Joam Feliciano
Puerto Rico
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Definitely.
 
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Lucas Huang
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This is what I found from the old FAQs:

9. Does a creature under the effects of Mind Control act as a creature
you control or your opponent controls for disengagements and moving
through friendly creatures?
If you play Mind Control and target a squad creature your opponent
controls, you control that creature while you are moving and attacking
with the target creature.



As stated above, does this mean that when you can move and attack with a figure, it is as "figure you control"?

How about the case for the spell Dissension in the Ranks which you can only attack with a figure?
 
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Targanth Phelandir
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You undoubtedly have a specific reason for your question, but seem not to want to explain why this is important.

In general, I do not think that the specific phrase "figure that you control' would be valid. While you do activate the figure for a brief moment in time, I would say that it never becomes your figure, it is always your opponent's figure that you are activating.

Again, I might be wrong here.

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Lucas Huang
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Targanth wrote:
You undoubtedly have a specific reason for your question, but seem not to want to explain why this is important.

In general, I do not think that the specific phrase "figure that you control' would be valid. While you do activate the figure for a brief moment in time, I would say that it never becomes your figure, it is always your opponent's figure that you are activating.

Again, I might be wrong here.



Sorry, my fault for not explaining earlier.

I was just exploring some spell combos that's all.
Then it occurred to me that card like Malevolent Whispers allows you to control an opponent's figure. If you gain control of that figure, cards like Infernal Plunge would do a nice combo with it (sacrifice the controlled figure and deal damage to another opponent's figure), provided that "figure you control" is indeed the key concept.

If above holds true, there could be some more options for the spell combos such as Malevolent Whispers+Circle of Flame.

But then again I am not sure if the cards are made to have such intentions in mind. That's why I wanted to be sure and asked for opinions.

I understand that we can interpret rules differently if given appropriate logic, but I feel that a general consensus on this makes more confidence to play, as well as contributing to the community for either more spell combo options or eliminate the doubts.

Again, thank you for the time reading these.
 
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Targanth Phelandir
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Thanks for the additional details. For the case of Malevolent Whispers the power reads:
Quote:
You may move and attack with target squad creature an opponent controls that is within 2 clear sight spaces of a red Planeswalker you control. That creature gets +1 (Power) until end of turn.

My opinion on that power is that (as I bolded) it would not become a figure you control. It seems clear that the figure remains under opponent control, you are simply allowed to move and attack with it.

That would be an awesome combo if it would work!
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Lucas Huang
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Targanth wrote:
Thanks for the additional details. For the case of Malevolent Whispers the power reads:
Quote:
You may move and attack with target squad creature an opponent controls that is within 2 clear sight spaces of a red Planeswalker you control. That creature gets +1 (Power) until end of turn.

My opinion on that power is that (as I bolded) it would not become a figure you control. It seems clear that the figure remains under opponent control, you are simply allowed to move and attack with it.

That would be an awesome combo if it would work!


Thanks for the clarification

My understanding as below:

1)When you can move/attack with a figure an opponent controls on battlefield, it does not mean you control the figure

2) As for Ever After or Wake the Dead ability, since the opponent no longer controls the figures in graveyard, the figure returned from graveyard is under your control, in which cards like Altar's Reap or Bone Splinters would work on the returned figure
 
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