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Mechs vs. Minions» Forums » General

Subject: Rant about Game Companies Not Doing Us a Favor rss

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Interesting perspective.

As someone who doesnt really get motivated by hype trains all I can say is that the bang for the buck on this game was too good to pass up.

I've always intended to pick up a programming game and I'm constantly designing them in my head, so having an opportunity to pick one up that has high quality components and a reasonable tag was a no-brainer.

I suspect that Riot is producing and distributing this game at a cost that prevents them from using the usual channels, either as a labor of love, or because they expect it to be a platform that will allow them to sell more profitable expansions.

That said, I will glow about Matagot and Portal (and maybe Riot, we'll see how this thing plays) in addition to giving them my money because they do something that I appreciate greatly. And while they couldnt do it without my money (and everyone elses), it means something personal to me that these guys do such a great job with it and have given me something really special, and I want them to know that and feel the satisfaction that they've done that for me, and for others.

so thats why imo.
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Frederick Ernst
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You all are the ones doing us the favor. Your support allows us to make games. The enthusiasm folks have shown for the game and the good will despite the fact we botched the launch is truly humbling and we're very grateful to you all.

So I guess I agree with you, Allen.
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David desJardins
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newtsmelt wrote:
In all the rush to make sure people were able to get a copy of the game I am sure that many forgot that they were even paying money to buy it.


What evidence do you have that everyone else is so dumb and thoughtless?
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Jeff Lozito
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I would say that to some people, the process of buying a game is more than just a simple business transaction ... Sure, I've thanked them with my money, but why is it a bad thing if I also thank them by saying 'Thank you'? I say thanks after getting my hair cut, despite the fact that I'm paying them money to get it done.

I've read several 'Thank you' threads here on BGG and I've not had that sense from any of them. I think the average BGGer is savvy enough to know that Riot Games is not giving them a copy of Mechs vs. Minions for free, despite your claim that many of us forgot that we were giving Riot our money.

As for the problems with the checkout process, I look at it much like backing a KS project that is delayed. When that happens, if the company was open, honest, and transparent throughout, then I'm happy to forgive and even thank them for their honesty. Despite the fact that it is, ultimately, their fault.

In this case, sure, it took me an extra couple of hours to get my order in. But I felt that Riot was open and communicative, and so I am thankful for them trying to help customers get their orders in.
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WD Yoga
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I agree that buying games is our right and us, as consumers/buyers, are entitled to get some kind of support from any game company (or, broadly, any kind of producers/sellers).

However, good behaviour and practices should be appreciated. When I say "thank you, Riot", it is showing my appreciation to them. It is also part of basic courtesy. It does not necessarily mean I forgot that I paid them money or something.

Edit: just see how Riot's reaction to the OP? Very gracious response. Thanks for being gracious, Riot.
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Kevin Salch
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MrPiddlesworth wrote:
You all are the ones doing us the favor. Your support allows us to make games. The enthusiasm folks have shown for the game and the good will despite the fact we botched the launch is truly humbling and we're very grateful to you all.

So I guess I agree with you, Allen.


Can you post a shipping status?
Say as of today we have shipped 60% of the games?
this could go a long way towards reducing angst.
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Simon Lewis
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Everything they have done has been well planned marketing, who they asked for help, the no disclosure, the release date and website problems.

That said, it is a game that appears to be much better value for money component wise than any other game. I normally only say thank you to makers of games if there are problems with my order that are resolved swiftly. I do think they ARE doing me a favour by making a potentially great game for so little money. I definitely got aboard the hype train but unlike many other purchases I did not get buyers remorse as soon as I made my purchase and I am looking forward to playing it as much as possible.

 
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Matt Watkins
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Being a video gamer, and a board gamer the two communities are so different in how they handle the creators of their favorites hobbies. Ever since joining the board game community I had have talks with some of the best in the field, like they were regular people, and they are down to earth and humble and open to suggestion. video game creators seldom talk to the community at all, and are usually, not always deceptive in selling you something that may need even more money spent on it, or releasing an unfinished product.

I have no qualms about thanking the great board game creators for being honest and up front about the minute details of the process that they don't have to share, but do. It makes them feel more human instead of some corporate douchebag, they genuinely care and for that I'm thankful that they made an awesome product that is an honor to own.
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Lawrence
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Is Riot doing me a favor by allowing me to buy a game? No.

Am I thankful that Riot is subsidizing shipping rates, offering a sale price that only offers them the slimmest of margins, and dedicating themselves to consistent communication and transparency well above the industry standard? Hell yes.

Quote:
In all the rush to make sure people were able to get a copy of the game I am sure that many forgot that they were even paying money to buy it.


What I find curious is why you feel the need to be so patronizing to anyone showing a little goodwill. Because, you know... I was really confused what it meant when I put in my credit card number and hit "confirm" on the order page.
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Matt Evans
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As others have said, I don't think there's anything wrong with showing additional gratitude to Riot for everything they've done here. Yeah, we've thanked them with our money and support for their product. But to be fair they've also gone out of their way to not only make an extremely high quality game, but also keep the price point way down.

It's abundantly clear that their focus with this game was not driven purely by profit. I don't think anyone can argue that. 3 years of development, more than dozen team members, hundreds of playtesters, huge shipping cost subsidies... They could have easily charged $150-200 and be fully justified in doing so.

In addition, Chris and the team are very active here on the forums helping out. So yeah, I feel like we have more than enough reasons to says "thanks" aside from giving them our money.
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Peter Strait
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Given that publishing a boardgame is a not insignificant economic risk (i.e., "How do you make a small fortune in the board game industry? Well, you start with a large fortune..."), some thanks for taking on the time, trouble and risk of doing so can be appropriate (or at least understandable as a sentiment).

In particular, companies that then go to an extra effort in the craftsmanship of the game (quality components, impressive art, well-drafted rules) likely have earned some praise and/or gratitude for doing so. (Edit to add: I feel Riot's game, in particular, has certainly gone all-out on its craftsmanship.)

Granted, I agree that some such praise can seem... sycophantic, when read, but that's more a question of degree, really.
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Joe D
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I'm quite happy with the approach Riot has taken, and actually thankful there are companies and individuals out there like this. I will let them know it. I haven't received the game yet, so I can't speak to the value compared to other publishers, but I can say that this situation appears quite unique. Riot has given a significant amount of time and resources to some of their employees to create something special. They have allowed them to change directions during development. They have allowed them to take time to interact with the community. Apart from a minor hiccup with orders, they have been resoundingly successful at this. There is a lot more going on here than an exchange of money for a product. Until you've been jaded by industry bureaucracy and corporate red tape, you probably don't realize what a rare and beautiful thing this is. I've been there, and see what Riot and staff have done. This is something praiseworthy, in any ndustry, and worth recognition. And so they have garnered my sincere thanks.

Now I just hope the game doesn't suck.
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newtsmelt wrote:


I'm not being 'patronizing to anyone showing a little goodwill.' It is fine to thank someone for doing a good job - it is the adulation that they are receiving for taking the money of customer's money that I find bothersome. As if it were a privilege to buy the game.

And regarding 'Because, you know... I was really confused what it meant when I put in my credit card number and hit "confirm' Yes! - I think that's exactly what was happening! People were fighting so hard to get an order placed (read the threads from that day if you don't think so) that it seemed to supersede the fact that they were paying their, in many cases, hard-earned money on it.


I think the thank yous and what-nots here are still within the reasonable limit (but YMMV).

If you want to see adulation... Have you checked any threads about CMON's products? whistle
 
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Mike Stevens
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Well, I will say it over and over. Thank you Riot Games for producing this game at this price and mailing it to me 5 days for only $5 shipping for a monster size box. YES, I was one of those people complaining and griping about the ordering process on Thursday as I tried from 1:00pm cst - 5:10pm to get online and get my order in, but thanks to some kind posters on BGG, I finally found a URL that would work and finish the process. I gladly paid $75 for a game that looks like it will be really fun and had so many cool miniatures that I just couldn't pass it up.

Riot was constantly online letting people know that they were aware of the problems and working on them and keeping them updated. The game arrived at my door in 5 days in perfect condition and my "Thank You" goes out to the entire Riot Team that worked on this game, got it produced for a reasonable price, and got it shipped to my house so
I can enjoy it.
 
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Dean L
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newtsmelt wrote:
Whenever hyped titles, such as Mechs vs Minions, come out, people treat them like the company that published them is somehow doing them a favor by letting them buy it as if they were giving away something for free. Anyone who buys a game is a paying customer. On one hand, I agree that some of the questions that people post on here about specificities, such as the weight of the box shown in the shipping information is incorrect and the concerns about why didn't my order ship already even though it is still within a reasonable timeframe? are silly, but on the other hand, these are, to some extent, valid questions for a paying customer to ask. It's sweet to see posts thanking the game company for what they did during the troubles they had during the ordering process for which they were ill-prepared (ignorantly or purposefully), but customers are already thanking them with their money.


If you follow that thought process through though, make it a strictly business transaction, people who hadn't bought the game were not customers. They were just potential customers. And Riot only needs as many customers as it has games to sell, the rest are irrelevant.

I don't think that's true either but if you follow the "purely a financial transaction" logic then it follows.
 
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Frank Franco
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Do you have a job?

Has your boss ever thanked you for doing your job?

Did you give him a spray about why he/she thanked you when you were after all getting paid?

Manners. Nothing wrong with them.
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Bart Rachemoss
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For me it's very simple. Things I want more of I support. If I want more of what someone is doing then I will praise them and thank them (and when appropriate, purchase and/or donate).
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David desJardins
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newtsmelt wrote:
I don't want to be insulting, so I won't be. Please re-read that message. I didn't say anything about everyone being 'dumb and thoughtless' - I said, as you quoted, 'I am sure that many forgot that they were even paying money to buy it.'

Many ≠ All


I'm not sure I feel much better that you only think MANY people are too dumb to understand that they are paying for the game.
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Randy Espinoza
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newtsmelt wrote:
mavericklancer wrote:
What I find curious is why you feel the need to be so patronizing to anyone showing a little goodwill. Because, you know... I was really confused what it meant when I put in my credit card number and hit "confirm" on the order page.
I'm not being 'patronizing to anyone showing a little goodwill.' It is fine to thank someone for doing a good job - it is the adulation that they are receiving for taking the money of customer's money that I find bothersome. As if it were a privilege to buy the game.
I honestly don't understand your point. Who exactly is doing this? Could you give one example of the type of behavior that is causing this pointless rant?
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Paul Newsham
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newtsmelt wrote:
I don't want to be insulting, so I won't be. Please re-read that message. I didn't say anything about everyone being 'dumb and thoughtless' - I said, as you quoted, 'I am sure that many forgot that they were even paying money to buy it.'

Many ≠ All


Ah, "many people". The last refuge of anyone wanting to turn their suppositions into facts.
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Having been in the moba community for over 8 years now, it's honestly funny having people complaining about having too good of an attitude or being overly polite. Especially since this is in the context of Riot Games.

I just want to say GG to the BGG community for being so top notch!
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David desJardins
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Someone would have to be incredibly dumb to "forget they are paying money for the game".
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Why didn't the game materialize out of thin air as soon as my order was processed? It's unbelievable in this day and age, especially a billion dollar company such as Rito, to have not foreseen that people would have to wait for the game to be DELIVERED. Is this the 1800s? Have we not developed past steam engines and the pony express? Don't get me wrong... KUDOS to Rito for making the game and yeah $75 is a steal for us, but I'm already thanking you by buying your game that would OTHERWISE be in the clearance bin at your local CAR WASH if it weren't for us customers. Next time, please invent a transmogrifier ray-gun to instantly beam our games directly to our laps instead of this outdated "delivery" process that winds up taking DAYS. Calvin & Hobbes made such a device in "Weirdos From Another Planet" so it's not like this technology is unknown. End rant.

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Frederick Ernst
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costguy wrote:
Can you post a shipping status?
Say as of today we have shipped 60% of the games?
this could go a long way towards reducing angst.


I've asked the Merch team, I'll let you know when I get info from them.
 
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Kolenka
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newtsmelt wrote:
Third, check out the title of the second 'Hot Thread.'


Let's take a look at the content of the post for a second, shall we? (Emphasis mine)

mavericklancer wrote:
Amidst the near overwhelming negativity and understandable frustration, I wanted to give a shout out to the Riot crew. Although the ordering process did leave much to be desired, you were consistently here to offer reassurances that you were aware of the problem and taking steps to help the situation. It took me nearly 4 hours of continuous refreshing, but at no time did I feel like you had abandoned us. This is much more than I've come to expect from most experienced game developers, let alone first timers.


The author points out the downsides of the rush, but also points out things that are (in my opinion) to be pointed out as positives. If you want someone that produces a product to be engaged with the community, then sometimes it is just worth pointing out that the engagement does in fact make a difference and is valued.


newtsmelt wrote:
Second, were you around BGG, on this specific game forum, on launch day? If so, you would have seen what I was talking about.


Yeah, I saw a lot of emotions all over the place. But in general, the mood is basically summed up by mavericklancer's post, IMO. So I think some clear examples are worth asking for.
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