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Codex: Card-Time Strategy – Deluxe Set» Forums » Rules

Subject: Flying / Anti-Air rss

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Geekmate75
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Yo !
I'm still not sure about understanding right Flying & Anti-Air
If i fly over a Ground Anti-Air Unit patrolling, i'm taking the damage from the unit i attack and also from the Ground Anti-Air Patrolling Unit ?

At the opposite if i attack with a Ground Unit and i pass below a Flying Unit patrolling, does i take damage from the unit i attack and also the Flying Patrolling Unit ?
 
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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Basically Anti-Air is like the damage from the add-on Tower but against attacking flying unit/hero only. If you fly over them, you take extra damage.

Simple as that.
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Geekmate75
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Ok that was the part i was pretty sure...
But i'm wondering if it's the same if pass below Flying patrolling Unit ?
 
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Chris McLeod
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Hmm. Everything about flying directly from the Card Database.

As a conceptual shorthand, think about flying and anti-air as follows: Ground forces without anti-air can only shoot straight. They can never hit fliers, ever. Flying forces can shoot both straight and down. Anti-air forces can shoot both straight and up. This is never a handicap because even though they CAN hit patrolling fliers, they aren't forced to. As a patroller, you only stop an attacker if it's on the *same* level as you. Anti-air ground forces on patrol will shoot at fliers as they fly over. — Sirlin

Fliers can ignore patrollers that don't have flying. In other words, they can attack something else instead if you want. — Sirlin

Fliers cannot ignore flying patrollers. The usual rules of the patrol zone apply, meaning if you want to attack with a flier at all, that flier CAN attack patrolling fliers so it must do that rather than attack other things such as non-patrollers or tech buildings. — Sirlin

When a flier attacks another flier or gets attacked by another flier, they both deal combat damage to each other as usual. When a flier attacks a ground unit or hero without anti-air, the flier deals its combat damage to the ground thing and the ground thing does NOT deal any combat damage to the flier. Ground forces without anti-air cannot even attack a flier at all. Ground forces with anti-air can attack fliers and deal combat damage to them as usual when they do. — Sirlin

Tip: See this for nearly all your questions.
http://codexcarddb.com/card/master_midori
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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Zulyen wrote:
Ok that was the part i was pretty sure...
But i'm wondering if it's the same if pass below Flying patrolling Unit ?


Nope, that's why I wrote "attacking flying"
 
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Guido Gloor
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Ostermundigen
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The statement below is false.
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The statement above is correct.
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Cool Only one question remains: Say one player has two ground patrollers with Anti-Air, and the other player wants to fly over the patrol zone and attack something behind it. Will both Anti-Air patrollers hit it while it flies over them?
 
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Geekmate75
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now that i'm enlighted

I'd say yes. Both deals damage to the flying attacker, the target deals damage to the flying attacker and the flying attacker deals damage to the target.
If i understood well...
 
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Geekmate75
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Thanks for the answer Chris !
i already read what you share and for me the doubt was still here because it is indicate that fliers can shoot straight and down, thought they don't seems to deal damage when a ground unit pass below them.
But when a flying unit fly over an Anti-Air Unit, it takes extra damage.
I was wondering why we don't have reciprocity here...
 
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John Fanjoy
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Zulyen wrote:
Thanks for the answer Chris !
i already read what you share and for me the doubt was still here because it is indicate that fliers can shoot straight and down, thought they don't seems to deal damage when a ground unit pass below them.
But when a flying unit fly over an Anti-Air Unit, it takes extra damage.
I was wondering why we don't have reciprocity here...

Sirlin quote I found on the official sirlingames forum:

Quote:

Actually fyi, the reason fliers don't hit ground attackers that run under them is NOT balance. They did exactly that for years. Then there was The Great Simplification. In one stroke, I revised all text on all cards. In this grand game-wide pass, every clause that didn't do much was just deleted. Many things were rewritten to a slightly simpler thing. So it changed the function of many things, often things like "this card now works 5% differently, but it takes half the words". There were a ton of cards that had about half the words they did before this pass. Font size on all cards, even cards with like 3 words on them, increased across the board at this time too.

As part of this massive simplification, flying worked differently. Running under a flier no longer dealt damage to you and flying over an anti-air thing (as opposed to attacking that anti-air thing directly) no longer damaged the flier. Before this time, flying and anti-air help text couldn't really even be written on a card in a reasonable way. There was just too much to it. After, it was much shorter and possible to even become help text.

After more testing, people complained this made anti-air too weak. So we added back in the part where flying past an anti-air thing damages the flier. But not the other part, but only for the sake of simplifying the written statement of what flying does.
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Geekmate75
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Thank you very much John !!!
 
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Rabid Schnauzer
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> An attacking flier can choose to bypass non-flying patrollers.

> An attacking flier cannot choose to bypass flying patrollers.

> When a flier attacks an opponent's unit or hero which has neither flying nor the Anti-Air ability, the flier deals combat damage normally, but the unit or hero being attacked deals no combat damage to the flier.

> When a flier attacks an opponent's unit or hero which has Anti-Air, the attacking flier and the defending unit or hero both deal combat damage to each other as usual ( subject to modification by other abilities )

> If an attacking flier chooses to bypass any patrollers which have Anti-Air, that flier suffers damage from each patroller so bypassed, but the flier only deals damage to the unit or hero or building it was attacking.

> An attacking flier using flying to bypass non-flying patrollers which have Anti-Air suffers their damage at the same time all other combat damage is dealt ( subject to modification by other abilities ).

> If an attacker has both flying and another ability which would allow it to bypass patrollers, it can avoid taking Anti-air damage from patrollers in cases where said other ability will allow it to bypass the Anti-Air patrollers.

>An attacker with neither flying nor Anti-Air cannot attack flying units.

>An attacker without flying can bypass flying patrollers. If said attacker also lacks Anti-Air, it *must* bypass any flying patrollers and cannot choose to attack any fliers.

>An attacker which lacks flying, but which has Anti-Air can choose whether to attack each individual flying patroller or to bypass it.

>The flying ability does not grant immunity to the damage the Tower add-on does to attackers.

And just typing that all out makes me shudder to imagine what the pre-"simplification" rules must have been like.
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jitjit2x junior
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Tnx for the summary.
1 question though,
If an attacker without anti-air bypasses a flying patroller, the flying patroller does not deal dmg to the attacker, right?
 
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Rabid Schnauzer
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jitjit2x wrote:
Tnx for the summary.
1 question though,
If an attacker without anti-air bypasses a flying patroller, the flying patroller does not deal dmg to the attacker, right?


That is correct.
 
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Geekmate75
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Thanks Rabid !
Your summary is pretty efficient.
And yeah i suppose you are right for the simplification !
On the other hand, we just miss one line to have the reciprocity...
Not sure, for just one line, that the game is SOOOOOO MUCH more complex.
 
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Brodie
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I tried to re-write Flying as the following ability:

"Flying: May ignore non-Flying patrollers. If you ignore an Anti-Air unit this way, that unit does damage to you when you do combat damage. While this is patrolling, non-Flying units ignore it and non-Flying Anti-Air units may ignore it."

Does that cover everything?
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United States
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What happens if an anti-air unit is patrolling and an attacker with flying decides to attack a different patrolling unit. Do they still take damage like they would if the attacking flying unit went over the patrol zone and attacked a base, for example?
 
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Rabid Schnauzer
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imtylerdurden wrote:
What happens if an anti-air unit is patrolling and an attacker with flying decides to attack a different patrolling unit. Do they still take damage like they would if the attacking flying unit went over the patrol zone and attacked a base, for example?


It depends where in the patrol zone. Remember that the Squad Leader must be removed or bypassed before you can attack any other patrollers, and then all remaining patrollers must be removed or eliminated before you can attack anything behind the patrol zone.

Attacking fliers only take Anti-Air damage when bypassing or directly attacking Anti-Air units/heroes.

So if there is a patroller with Anti-Air in the Scavenger slot, an attacking flier can attack another patroller in the Elite slot, the Technician Slot or the Lookout Slot without incurring any damage from the Anti-Air Scavenger.

Alternately, if there is a patroller with Anti-Air in the Squad Leader slot, then an attacker who uses flying to bypass that Squad Leader will suffer Anti-Air damage from the squad leader even when attacking another patroller.

And to further illustrate, if there are two anti-air patrollers, one in Squad Leader one Elite, and a third patroller (with neither flying nor anti-air) in Lookout then an attacking flier who attacks the Lookout patroller only takes Anti-Air damage from the Squad Leader, but an attacking flyer who attacks anything behind the patroll zone takes Anti-Air damage from both the Squad Leader and the Elite patrollers.

can attack the patroller in Elite
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