GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!

9,061 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
18 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

SeaFall» Forums » Rules

Subject: the tie-breaker for title selection seems kind of broken rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Louissimon Lefebvre
Canada
Montréal
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
So, in our first actual game, the 2nd one if you count the prologue, we ended up with a 3 way tie for 1st place in a 4 player game.

The lowest title owner won the game. Ok That part makes sense. what's bugging me is how the title is then decided for next game.

The 4th place player got to choose his title for the next game. But then, since we were tied in the amount of glory, again the, player with the lowest title, ie the winner who got the better upgrades, gets to choose next.

In this case I was the player with the prince/princess title. So Technically I ended up in 3rd place in the game and then I ended up being the prince/princess again.

My problem with this method is that it feels like being prince/princess is a HUGE disadvantage. You play last, always lose in case of a tie, have less chance of getting a better title.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
and after opening the 1st box apparently you have an even bigger disadvantage in giving the other players ennemitty. Granted it was getting late so we only skimmed through the new stuff, so I might have missed something there.


So yeah. I was a little upset at that point. I realize that 3 way tie must be pretty rare, but even in 2 way tie the fact that you can't get the winner upgrade AND are stuck with a less good title seems kind of wrong to me.

Did we misinterpret some rules? Am I overexaggerating? Is there some bonus to being prince/princess later on?(light spoilers allowed)
Some answers would be highly appreciated.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's definitely a disadvantage. The tie aspect is a small part of it, because ties will be pretty rare.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq Starforged
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
In general, the bonus for being the prince is that you have more glory than everyone else, and are therefore winning the campaign (at the moment). I agree that this is seems less valuable when you have a three-way tie, but I think you're likely to find the tie breaks up quickly.

In your particular case, however:

Quote:
Confirmed: if two players tie for campaign glory at the end of the game, the formerly lower-ranking player gains the higher rank. Reference: JR Honeycutt
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Becq wrote:
In your particular case, however:

Quote:
Confirmed: if two players tie for campaign glory at the end of the game, the formerly lower-ranking player gains the higher rank. Reference: JR Honeycutt


JR said that but he's wrong. He just made a mistake, not the first time. Designers and developers often forget the details of rules. The rules are clear and clearly stated rules are more authoritative than offhand posts by developers.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rasmus Larsson
msg tools
This bothers me about the game. For the second time around I ended up on second place, tied with the winner and again stuck with the prince/princess title. It's like we both perform just as good, but I get the bad stuff and he gets the good stuff, and has more benefits in the next game.

Doesn't seem quite right.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq Starforged
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
To be fair, you're also still ahead in glory, which is kind of important, too...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
j n
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
rasmus1987 wrote:
This bothers me about the game. For the second time around I ended up on second place, tied with the winner and again stuck with the prince/princess title.


So, you started with a turn-order disadvantage and a tie-breaker disadvantage (and maybe a game win disadvantage?), but ended up with the same score as the player on the flipside of those disadvantages.

It doesn't seem like it's holding you back that much yet?

(Also you presumably got to keep a better advisor because you didn't win the game).

Becq wrote:
To be fair, you're also still ahead in glory, which is kind of important, too...


Um...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq Starforged
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah, was that a three-way tie for both game glory AND campaign glory? If so, I misread it. Carry on!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
j n
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Becq wrote:
Ah, was that a three-way tie for both game glory AND campaign glory? If so, I misread it. Carry on!


Being game 1, it would be :)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rasmus Larsson
msg tools
In my case, I'm tied with the winner of the second game, in both game and campaign glory. And the first game ended the same way, so for the second time in a row, the only thing keeping me from winning a game is the rank.

Yeah, I am still ahead of the three other players in campaign glory, but the disadvantage of being tied with the winner is kinda harsh. No starting benefits next game, no upgrades, and give the three lower ranks one emnity token each.

I guess I just wanted to whine about it. I think the winner of the game should earn the prince/princess rank no matter if tied.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
j n
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
It's possible to win a game and be way behind on campaign glory, so it can't just go to the game winner. It would be reasonable to have the game winner lose ties during endgame regardless of title though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adel Port
msg tools
rasmus1987 wrote:
No starting benefits next game, no upgrades, and give the three lower ranks one emnity token each.


So we just got here in our game and aren't sure what the "no starting benefits next game" actually entails. Does that mean no Reputation, Luck, Advisor, 8 gold from farms, etc...?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Chaffer
msg tools
adelport wrote:
rasmus1987 wrote:
No starting benefits next game, no upgrades, and give the three lower ranks one emnity token each.


So we just got here in our game and aren't sure what the "no starting benefits next game" actually entails. Does that mean no Reputation, Luck, Advisor, 8 gold from farms, etc...?


We chewed this over too. No fortune and reputation seemed most likely, and then realised it must refer to the fact that the other new title cards confer benefits on their holders: extra gold, reputation, fortune tokens etc. The prince/princess receives none of these benefits...'no starting benefits', which seems fair. They are top of the heap and hardly need a leg up.

Yes?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Filpus
United States
Bellevue
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Stevenchaffer wrote:
adelport wrote:
rasmus1987 wrote:
No starting benefits next game, no upgrades, and give the three lower ranks one emnity token each.


So we just got here in our game and aren't sure what the "no starting benefits next game" actually entails. Does that mean no Reputation, Luck, Advisor, 8 gold from farms, etc...?


We chewed this over too. No fortune and reputation seemed most likely, and then realised it must refer to the fact that the other new title cards confer benefits on their holders: extra gold, reputation, fortune tokens etc. The prince/princess receives none of these benefits...'no starting benefits', which seems fair. They are top of the heap and hardly need a leg up.

Yes?


Correct. You get everything the rulebook says you start with plus everything your title card says you start with. Since the Prince/Princess title card doesn't say you start with anything (except giving out enmity), you get the stuff in the rulebook.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith Pishnery
United States
Lakewood
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Yeah that makes the most sense in context. Fortune/Glory/Farm gold isn't really a "benefit" after all. It's just a thing you already have.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.