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Subject: So, who won the third debate? rss

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Professor of Pain
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I was at my Arnis de Mano class and missed the debate but for the last 5 minutes or so. Post-debate analysis on NPR as I was driving home suggested that the debate won't change the trajectory of the race. A quick scan of the Livesnark thread suggests Clinton won again. Bigly.

Big take away seems to be that Trump won't commit to recognizing the results when he loses.



What do you think?
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Mac Mcleod
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Trump didn't lose the debate.

Until he said he wouldn't recognize the election.

That was stupid. Senior republican's are telling journalists it was a terrible thing to say.



"Trouble he (trump) didn't need to stir up for himself"

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Bojan Ramadanovic
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I am sure any minute now Koldie will be here to tell us how in his opinion it was a strong performance on both sides of the Trump-Biden debate but that Trump got it in the end.
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Professor of Pain
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Here is a post debate poll of debate watchers:


Yougov also has Clinton winning, 49% to 39%.
 
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Twas civil and straight for the first eight minutes. Then facts and policies started to become important, and Trump fell to pieces. His snark and retorts were first grade level, landing with a thud. Hillary got too detailed in a few responses (policy deep), so may have lost some viewers.

Overall, Trump got backed into a corner quite often and then lashed out as he does... there were a few moments when he looked quite unhinged, all the while Hillary smiled back at him, knowing she will be the next POTUS.

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bramadan wrote:
I am sure any minute now Koldie will be here to tell us how in his opinion it was a strong performance on both sides of the Trump-Biden debate but that Trump got it in the end.


Koldie is probably just waking up from some auto-erotica action.... he gets firm when the Donald starts using the word "Nasty".

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R. Frazier
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The fact that he treats willingness to accept the results of the election like some kind of reality show reveal is just mindblowing.

Honestly I am having a harder and harder time understanding the 41% of America who is apparently planning to vote for him. Every bit of him, every gesture, every word, every mannerism just screams "halfwit thug" to me. I genuinely would not trust him to tell me if it were raining outside. He strikes me as the least knowledgeable, least honest and least intelligent person I've ever seen run for president in my life, and I'm including Vermin Supreme.
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Professor of Pain
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darthhugo wrote:
Overall, Trump got backed into a corner quite often and then lashed out as he does... there were a few moments when he looked quite unhinged, all the while Hillary smiled back at him, knowing she will be the next POTUS.

Like this?
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The play's the thing ...
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Elfbane wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
Overall, Trump got backed into a corner quite often and then lashed out as he does... there were a few moments when he looked quite unhinged, all the while Hillary smiled back at him, knowing she will be the next POTUS.

Like this?


You're the puppet, you're the puppet ...
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Junior McSpiffy
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I didn't watch the debate. So I did. I won the third debate.
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GameCrossing wrote:
I didn't watch the debate. So I did. I won the third debate.


I was playing games instead....so I won the third debate.
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Mac Mcleod
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From 538.com



Clinton upside


Quote:

we currently give Clinton a non-negligible 17 percent chance of taking that state. That prediction is based solely on polls, but last week, we took a more demographic approach to calculate where Clinton and Trump had the most upside. Texas stood out a bit:


Chance to win going into the debates
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Mac Mcleod
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the gun question



---
The rest of the 538 live blog- with links to many studies related to the questions is here.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/third-presidential-deba...
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B Schneider
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The very first debate where the moderator wasn't openly hostile to Trump, and actually pressed Hillary (and Trump) for once.

None of this "Well, Hillary said she's sorry, and it was a mistake, good enough for me! Wait a minute Mr. Trump, I'm fact checking you as we speak!".

The CNN hosted debate was the largest partisan hack job for a debate I've ever seen.

As to their performances, I'd say tied. Hillary is the consummate politician and used to debates, it still shows.
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B Schneider
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maxo-texas wrote:
the gun question



---
The rest of the 538 live blog- with links to many studies related to the questions is here.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/third-presidential-deba...


WRT taxes, makes you wonder why Wall Street overwhwlmingly backs Hillary? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Concern for the country? Or will tax loopholes remain open so in the end they will save much more than those figures suggest under Hillary? That plus fear of dwindling cheap illegal labour resources and NAFTA renegotiating.

Wall Street, the "1%ers" do not like Trump. They know where their bread is buttered and donate accordingly.
 
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Jon Badolato
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Hillary clearly won. The debate won't change much. The people idiotic enough to vote for Trump won't be swayed not to. The good news is Trump's exposure in the debates is probably more likely to cause more undecideds to vote Clinton rather than Trump so to that end the debates have probably achieved much for the Dems.

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Jage
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IDK why this question of "who won" constantly comes up. A debate should be more about candidates presenting their views. Whomever won is the person who was championing the policies you agree with.
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She should be gracious in defeat and send him an inviter to her coronation err inauguration ceremony. The he wont be able to keep her in suspense as he would miss out on all those sweet little canapes.
 
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jonb wrote:
Hillary clearly won. The debate won't change much. The people idiotic enough to vote for Trump won't be swayed not to. The good news is Trump's exposure in the debates is probably more likely to cause more undecideds to vote Clinton rather than Trump so to that end the debates have probably achieved much for the Dems.



Trump clearly won. The debate won't change much. The people idiotic enough to vote for Clinton won't be swayed not to. The good news is Clinton's exposure in the debates is probably more likely to cause more undecideds to vote Trump rather than Clinton so to that end the debates have probably achieved much for the Republicans.

So are you really saying anything at all if I can just change the names to the opposite and it still makes sense?
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Robert Stuart
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von wildensee wrote:
WRT taxes, makes you wonder why Wall Street overwhwlmingly backs Hillary? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Concern for the country? Or will tax loopholes remain open so in the end they will save much more than those figures suggest under Hillary? That plus fear of dwindling cheap illegal labour resources and NAFTA renegotiating.

Wall Street, the "1%ers" do not like Trump. They know where their bread is buttered and donate accordingly.


Here's what I think (but perhaps I'm giving them too much credit):

(1) They know that there's rising anger against them, and that sooner or later this anger might boil over in catastrophic ways.

(2) They know that they're doing so well that they can well afford to pay more taxes.

(3) They really do recognize that a suite of sane measures which includes them paying more taxes will result in greater prosperity for the working class, thereby defusing the growing anger and allowing them to maintain their current way of work and life.
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jeremy cobert
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Chris Wallace.
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Matthew Schoell
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jonb wrote:
Hillary clearly won. The debate won't change much. The people idiotic enough to vote for Trump won't be swayed not to. The good news is Trump's exposure in the debates is probably more likely to cause more undecideds to vote Clinton rather than Trump so to that end the debates have probably achieved much for the Dems.



Of all the issues, I can't figure out Trumps comments about our allies. I get, for example, his abortion position, or at least why he'd choose it strategically. What's the upside in asking all our allies to pay us protection money? It's insane, and it's terrible foreign policy.

Anyway it's one more time where Clinton can respond to questions on point and in detail, and he can't say anything of substance. Watch him trying to complete a sentence about Mosul. If he wasn't making these mountainous gaffes, there would still be so much else to disqualify him.
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jageroxorz wrote:
IDK why this question of "who won" constantly comes up. A debate should be more about candidates presenting their views. Whomever won is the person who was championing the policies you agree with.

That's sort of an "everybody gets a trophy" take on debating.

The actual winner is the person who sways the most people over to their side. Discussing who won is shorthand for who you think did the best job convincing people to vote for them. If you are correct, then that should later be reflected in the polls.

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Jage
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jeremycobert wrote:

Chris Wallace.


I thought he did a great job. There were actually some issues discussed.

Then, mid-way, he veered out of the issues. So, maybe a 7/10.
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Jage
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Doc Mage wrote:
jonb wrote:
Hillary clearly won. The debate won't change much. The people idiotic enough to vote for Trump won't be swayed not to. The good news is Trump's exposure in the debates is probably more likely to cause more undecideds to vote Clinton rather than Trump so to that end the debates have probably achieved much for the Dems.



Of all the issues, I can't figure out Trumps comments about our allies. I get, for example, his abortion position, or at least why he'd choose it strategically. What's the upside in asking all our allies to pay us protection money? It's insane, and it's terrible foreign policy.

Anyway it's one more time where Clinton can respond to questions on point and in detail, and he can't say anything of substance. Watch him trying to complete a sentence about Mosul. If he wasn't making these mountainous gaffes, there would still be so much else to disqualify him.


I think it's more of this idea of the US can't continue to be the world's policeman when our home-spending and infrastructure is collapsing. I think it's an idea a lot of people support, although the Hawks like Clinton and the Bushes disagree.

There was a time in US Foreign Policy when we didn't just jump into wars. We were late to the party in both WWI and WWII. Nowadays the "general thinking" is that we need to be everywhere all the time, so we're responsible when bad things happen (Because we didn't intervene THERE), when it's really not our fault/business.

The math doesn't add up. We can't continue to spend so much on the military.

Right now we basically have an imperialistic military force without actually getting any benefits from imperialism (since we can't take anything if we conquer something nowadays). It will eventually collapse upon itself.
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