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Seasons» Forums » General

Subject: Thoughts on overpowered or too nasty cards rss

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Bat Cow
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Hi all,

Seasons is a great game, one of the greatest ever for me, I just can't stop playing this game because of the neverending strategies this game allows, after playing maybe 1000 games I still had a couple of very funny combinations of cards/loops lately...once I was one card away from the neverending vp combo (hand of fortune, vase of yang, staff of spring and 2 resurection potions) and they were all in the draft!! Had also Syllas and was waiting my opponent to play hand of fortune unprotected to play Syllas -resurection potion and get the thing done...obviously the expert opponent didn't go unprotected…

In one of my last games (3 player) I seemed to be overmatched by the others and in the last year somehow I made it to the victory...which happens by time to everyone...except...I did it using five times potion of dreams!!! Such a normal card...2 zira shields and a sepulcral amulet did the loop...I won't analyze all the moves that loops gave me, but think about that, five potion of dreams are getting me the win!!!

Sorry for the long intro, the main thing is I would like to open this post to everyone for sharing their thoughts on which cards seems too overpowered and/or thoughts on how to balance (with houserules) some too nasty cards…such as Thieving Fairies...that card is my main concern, here I go...

Thieving Fairies drafted as first choice (will abbreviate to TF...) is too negative in too many scenarios, they have effect on 28/29 unique cards!! I could be ok with that if they just take 1 vp from you and not getting 1 extra vp also. In that case you could give more end value to the card.

There are lots of cards that if taken first (Syllas, Io's Minion, Igramul…) can do serious damage, but always one shot...take, digest and go on...TF stays on the stomach for the whole game. If they are in the draft but not taken first by the opponent you work around them, but otherwise...way too negative.

With too negative I mean that if you do the math you just stop using some cards...I like the idea of "sharing the wealth" that TF gives you, but a little less please? With some cards they don't share...they take away the wealth!!

Take Kairn...without opponent with TF it's worth 4 vp differential, if he has TF it's just 1 vp worth for spending 1 energy ((((

Malice dice...just stop using it unless you rrrrealllly need a star or whatever...minus 1 vp differential if you use it when opponent has TF!!!

Calderaun? Open the window and throw away or start a fire with that card if opponent has TF

Mirror of the seasons? Very costly energy you just changed if opponent has TF

Familiar Idol? Start collecting man! Only with 4 familiars it starts getting you 1 vp for activating it, pfewwww

I could go on with others and list also other cards which are affected but sometimes are mitigated by other cards (of course Tangleweed will do it 100%), such as crystal orb with eolis statue...at least if you look at the top card of the pile you have a chance to know which card is there without paying dues to TF and activating the orb when the card on top is ok for you...

I had a decent amount of games where TF prevented me from activating some cards, and that is the only time when I am really annoyed, even getting minioned is more acceptable for me…in that case I would have enjoyed the game and have a 5 seconds nail bite when getting minioned and that's it

In too much scenarios TF takes the fun out of it, so this is my only complain about this game...all the other overpowered cards? We can talk about, but none that I know is so annoying like TF. Mind you, they will not give you automatically the win, I really want to point out the annoyance factor of that card and how it could be balanced...of course you can play without it...but then everyone could want to burn some cards they also don't like and hey... if that's the case...let's play something else.

Finally,

Vampiric crown too overpowered? Ishtar balance too? Io's minion also too nasty? Share your thoughts and if you like you may share also some incredible combinations such as I described above
 
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Zoe M
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There are a few cards that we've removed from our game because we don't like them. Problem solved
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Mark Johnson
Canada
St.John's
Newfoundland
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“Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman’s taken my life, But what does it matter, for all men must die, and I’ve tasted the Dornishman’s wife!”
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I've removed some of the cards from my deck. One is Thieving Fairies. I don't think they're OP, but they do make the game incredibly un-fun for your opponent. Temporal Boots is one that I have removed from the deck for being OP. If an opponent has 1-2 and an Amsug or 2, he basically skip the entire last round of the game and usually ends up being something like this for your opponent:

-15 points for 3 cards in hand
15 - 40 opportunity cost of the prestige value of cards not played
10 - 50 opportunity cost of the crystals gained from their effects

No card should cause such a differential in points.

Then I've removed 2 cards for being too weak/boring: Steadfast Die and Sid Nightshade.
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Tony C
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Holly Springs
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Only card I've removed due to being annoying is the "hot potato" familiar (can't remember him). He came out the second turn of my first game and just added a drag onto the game. Then one turn after we got rid of him, his brother came out.

I did play one game where a player drafted two cards that basically gave her 2 crystals each time anyone activated a card - and I was activating at least two cards per turn. We shouldn't have let her get them, lesson learned. (might have been the thieving fairies.)

Other that that, I leave everything in.
 
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Christina Crouch
United Kingdom
Tadley
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Kairn the Destroyer is a card that causes the most consternation. If people might be annoyed by having all their crystals destroyed, I would advise removing it. I know that people argue that Kairn is not the most efficient way to win, but the effect of the card on a game with new players can be devastating, and you might not get a second play.
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Brian Baier
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While some of these might be good to set aside when teaching the game, I would argue against permanently removing cards.

This is a game where your knowledge of the cards is going to impact your success rate. It's the type of game that lends itself to repeated play with experienced opponents. As a result, regular players are going to each have their chance drafting and playing those cards perceived as more powerful.

When you're up against a slightly better deck, you'll just be more challenged for that game. You're unlikely to be repeatedly outmatched because of one or two cards. Besides, how much better is the win going to feel when you are in that situation?
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Bat Cow
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elucidarian wrote:
While some of these might be good to set aside when teaching the game, I would argue against permanently removing cards.

This is a game where your knowledge of the cards is going to impact your success rate. It's the type of game that lends itself to repeated play with experienced opponents. As a result, regular players are going to each have their chance drafting and playing those cards perceived as more powerful.

When you're up against a slightly better deck, you'll just be more challenged for that game. You're unlikely to be repeatedly outmatched because of one or two cards. Besides, how much better is the win going to feel when you are in that situation?


If you look at the OP at the end I also say that removing cards is not a good solution. Besides, on BGA you can't remove anything, and that is where I mainly play.

I have a good elo rating and, as I also stated, TF will not give you automatically the win, the point that I wanted to make is that TF is the only piss-off card because even if you manage to win you still may have had less fun because of not using your malice die or other cards.

So, it's not about the win or loss, those are instant feelings that come and go. TF, in the opponents hand, when you have 2-3 of those cards I mentioned in the OP, is just annoying and lay the whole game on the stomach, if you don't gain an extra vp with TF than it seems ok, more end value to that card and that is it.

Try to houserule that and you will see...TF should be a "share the wealth" card in my eyes, not a "bonebreaker" card.

A card that blocks the usage of many other cards is too negative, look at that poor Tangleweed, he can prevent just one card from doing damage...so...lock me Kairn and I am still able to use my other cards.

Conclusion: Seasons is getting old and I think it may be time for Regis to work at Seasons 2...the best cards from the first game ( TF remodeled ) plus a bunch of new ones and not too many changes overall...Regis?
 
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Brian Baier
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I guess I can't really argue the power of TF, as it is a first-pick, auto-draft almost whenever it shows up.

And, yes, Seasons does get old. It's one of the few in my collection I consistently return to, but only with sufficient breaks between games. The reason for that comes down to the amount of luck and randomness. Neither is a bad thing, although I would enjoy the game more is both were toned down somehow. The strategy is nowhere near as tight as something like Race for the Galaxy, for example, though the benefit of memorizing card relationships bears comparison.
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Bat Cow
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Yes, Seasons would be on par for best game ever if there would be less randomness/luck, that is why I am designing a game inspired by Seasons but with almost no luck

 
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