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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: shadow card effect rss

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wesley sermeus
Belgium
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if you have a shadow card that has a shadow effect and reads: engages the next enemy and makes an immediate attack will this also mean that it makes two attacks instead of 1?
1 against the engaged player and after that against the next player with a new shadow card?
 
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Mr. D
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Oneonta
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Shadow effects are resolved before calculating damage. So if it says exactly what you wrote, the enemy would move and no longer be attacking the original defender. It now does a new attack against this new player. So, only 1 attack.

However, it may say "After this enemy attacks, engage....". In that case, it will attack 2 different players.
 
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Greg Burkett
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Warsaw
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Additionally, I believe it's been clarified that if you're the only player in the game (playing solitaire) then there is no "next" player, and thus it doesn't make a second attack in that case.
 
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Robin Munn

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Tubarush wrote:
Shadow effects are resolved before calculating damage. So if it says exactly what you wrote, the enemy would move and no longer be attacking the original defender. It now does a new attack against this new player. So, only 1 attack.

This is not quite correct. Section 1.32 of the FAQ says:

FAQ 1.32 wrote:
1.32 Mid-Attack Control or Engagement Change
If a card involved in combat changes control, is returned to the staging area, or engages another player during the resolution of an attack, that attack still resolves with the card still participating from its new state.

So if the shadow card was phrased as "This enemy engages the next player and makes an immediate attack", nothing in the rules or the FAQ would prevent the current attack from also resolving. There would be a question about which attack should resolve first, the one in progress or the "immediate" attack from the shadow card, but you would resolve both.

However, it's a moot point, because no shadow card is phrased that way. Every shadow card that talks about engaging the next player is phrased as something like the way you put it below: "After this attack, attacking enemy engages the next player, then makes an immediate attack."

Tubarush wrote:
However, it may say "After this enemy attacks, engage....". In that case, it will attack 2 different players.

Here, you are quite correct. Assuming a multiplayer game (as Greg Burkett correctly points out, in single-player there is no "next" player), the attack on player 1 will complete, and then the enemy will move to player 2's engagement area and attack player 2. (And once that attack is complete, assuming it doesn't get another "engage the next player" shadow card, it will stay engaged with player 2.)

So it's a moot point whether the attack on player 1 would be interrupted or not, because there are no shadow cards in the game that are phrased like that. All of them say "After this attack ...", which means after you've gone through step 4 (calculate & apply damage) of attack resolution.
 
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wesley sermeus
Belgium
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Quote:
However, it's a moot point, because no shadow card is phrased that way. Every shadow card that talks about engaging the next player is phrased as something like the way you put it below: "After this attack, attacking enemy engages the next player, then makes an immediate attack."


Well in the scenario the morgule vale, the morgule bodyguards have following shadow effect: Attacking enemy engages the next player and makes an immediate attack, if able.

it doensn't mention after this attack... so does this means, that the bodyguard immidiately engages the next player and attacks it, or does it still resolve it's attack against the player with who he was originally engaged and attacks the next player afterwards?

 
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Mr. D
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I stand corrected.

From the FAQ:
Quote:
(1.32) Mid-Attack Control or Engagement Change
If a card involved in combat changes control, is
returned to the staging area, or engages another player
during the resolution of an attack, that attack still
resolves with the card still participating from its new
state.
 
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Robin Munn

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wezze wrote:

Quote:
However, it's a moot point, because no shadow card is phrased that way. Every shadow card that talks about engaging the next player is phrased as something like the way you put it below: "After this attack, attacking enemy engages the next player, then makes an immediate attack."


Well in the scenario the morgule vale, the morgule bodyguards have following shadow effect: Attacking enemy engages the next player and makes an immediate attack, if able.

it doensn't mention after this attack... so does this means, that the bodyguard immidiately engages the next player and attacks it, or does it still resolve it's attack against the player with who he was originally engaged and attacks the next player afterwards?


You're right! I missed that one when I did a search for "engages the next player" earlier. That one doesn't have the "After this attack" phrasing.

The way I would play it is to say "Every other card with this mechanic says "After this attack", and FFG is known for not being extremely careful with their phrasing. I think this was supposed to say "After this attack" as well, and I'll play it that way." But you could also say that the immediate attack happens immediately, but because of FAQ 1.32, it doesn't cancel the original attack. Therefore, once the immediate attack against player 2 has finished, finish resolving player 1's attack.

That latter reading could possibly lead to a situation advantageous to the players: if the enemy had just 1 hit point left and player 2 has a Gondorian Spearman, then it would destroy the enemy before the first attack had finished resolving. But in the former reading, where the attack completes before the enemy makes the next attack (as it does with every other card), then the Gondorian Spearman would only prevent the second attack, not the first attack.
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