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Subject: POLL: Rate the core game heroes/wonders rss

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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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My game group likes to have a nice collection of heroes to choose from when they build a hero/wonder. We took some core choices away and added a few Atlas heroes to always have an attractive set of 5 to pick from.

Here's my ratings/reviews (just after 5 games so some will probably change) and I'd like to see/read yours.
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Poll
How would you rate the heroes/wonders in the core game?
  Weak Mediocre Good Strong Overpowered
Colossus of Rhodes
Temple of Artemis
Circe
Antigone
Penthesilea
Perseus
Hanging Gardens
Spartacus
Gilgamesh
Lighthouse of Pharos
Hamilcar
Queen of Sheba
Ramses II
Nebuchadnezzar
Statue of Zeus
Hercules
Castor & Pollux
      19 answers
Poll created by Teowulff



C O L L E C T

Colossus of Rhodes
Collect: Announce and take 1 commodity from the reserve after all players have collected
Leader Bonus (0)
A nice one to get hold of rare resources. Especially if you are after heroes or the pyramids by means of commodities. Particularly useful for Carthage and not a bad choice for the other empires that start off heavily on commodities.

Temple of Artemis
Collect: Take 1 extra coin each round
Leader Bonus (0)
Basically a free city. Same as the Colossus, except extra useful for Egypt and Greece. A little less strong as it’s easier to get an extra coin in other ways than a 12th unique commodity.

Circe
Collect: During movement may place legions onto empty caravans to gain their benefit. Legions used this way do not count towards your trade leadership score.
Leader Bonus (0)
Situational but can be very useful, especially early on in the game or in a battle heavy game where your opponents frequently pillage each other’s lands.

T R A D E

Antigone
Trade: After trade number announced, may decide personal trade number from 0-5;
Leader Bonus (4): 2/2/0
The strong leader bonus already is a good reason to take Antigone. Useful when you want to protect your coins or rare resources when 4 or 5 are asked by the trade leader.

B U I L D

Penthesilea
Build: 1x/round may build a free legion in your capital for each of your territories occupied by opponent(s)
Leader Bonus (4): 0/2/2
Worth taking for the stat bonus. Skill very situational and may not be triggered a lot in many games. What that’s concerned, Spartacus is way better as you can use him every turn.


Perseus
Build: You may overrule culture leader’s order so you may build pyramids or 5th hero to win the game;
Leader Bonus (4): 1/2/1
Gives 4 leadership stat points, which is useful. His special ability is very situational. I'd rate him slightly lower than Penthesilea as his stats and ability are a bit less useful.
Also lower than Antigone because her skill is a lot more viable.


Hanging Gardens
Build: You may store up to 2 different commodities into the next round;
Leader Bonus (2): 2/0/0
Handy if you don’t like to discard your unused commodities and/or want to save for heroes or the pyramid. Especially nice for commodity-heavy civilizations like Carthage. On top of that a nice trade stat boost. Useful.

Spartacus
Build: 1x/round may build a legion for 1 coin or 1 gladiator
Leader Bonus (0)
Spartacus is the most valuable of the “build a unit for 1 resource” heroes as legions are most prone to be destroyed during the game. And there’s 8 legions per empire vs 5 triremes/fortresses.

Gilgamesh
Build: Once per round may build a fortress for 1 coin or 1 stone
Leader Bonus (0)
Nice if you get him early on in the game as he gets you a solid defense for few resources but once you have built your 5 fortresses Gilgamesh has no use anymore. If he gets revealed later in the game when most players have already built their fortresses he’s pretty useless, unless you play with a group of very aggressive players. He would be more useful with a leadership bonus or extra skill, like “if you haven’t built a fortress this turn, you may reroll one combat die when defending with at least one fortress”.

Lighthouse of Pharos
Build: 1x/round may build a trireme for 1 coin or 1 wood
Leader Bonus (0)
Renders Atlas rather useless. I think the least useful of the “build a unit for 1 resource” wonders as triremes are least likely to be destroyed during the game. Next to that, I haven’t been in a game where players built all of their 5 triremes (although Atlantis may do so). Also, like stone, wood is a rare commodity in the game (with just 2 places to find it), compared to Spartacus' commonly found gladiators (6 places). A small leadership bonus would have made this hero a bit more useful/attractive.

B A T T L E

Hamilcar
Battle: Double pillage income;
Leader Bonus (3): 1/1/1
Already somewhat useful for his leadership bonus, Hamilcar can give you a little extra when you want to finish (win) the game by building pyramids or a 5th hero and get a few extra resources from your opponents. Situational, but IF you can use him he may grant you the win.
Also useful in games where players engage in a lot of combat.


Queen of Sheba
Battle: 1x/round, may immediately convert opponent’s control marker to yours by sacrificing an occupying legion;
Leader Bonus (2): 0/1/1
The Queen of Sheba is ok. She gives a nice little leadership bonus that makes her a bit more attractive as her special ability is situational and also costs you a legion. Can be decisive in some conflicts though (especially when opposing Zeus).

Ramses II
Battle: Roll one additional die during all land battles (must have a unit involved)
Leader Bonus (0)
A damage boost to all your armies, what’s not to like? Basically an extra legion in all your battles.

Nebuchadnezzar
Battle: +5 to your dice roll when battle on land under your control (must have a unit involved)
Leader Bonus (0)
One extra damage to all your defending armies. Especially good if you play with a lot of aggressive players or want to build pyramids or heroes and would rather not be bothered by pesky invaders.

Statue of Zeus
Battle: at beginning of phase, you may declare peace with an opponent (expels legions back to their capital from your territories; may not attack on land or sea; may not move through each other’s territory). You may not choose the same opponent consecutively.
Leader Bonus (0)
A useful, be it annoying wonder. Especially good if you want to build your pyramid or 5th hero and want to fend your opponents off for the last few turns. Less useful with peaceful players that go for one of the “build” winning conditions. Can make 3-player games almost impossible to play, though.

O T H E R

Hercules
Leader Bonus (6): 2/2/2
+2 to all your leadership scores; what’s not to like? A bit overpowered in 3-player games.

Castor & Pollux
When built, copy the hero power of another purchased hero in play, except Perseus
Although situational and usually less useful at the beginning of the game, it can be devastating to copy your favorite hero. Keep in mind this only copies the special ability of another hero, not the +leadership stats.

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Steven Townshend
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
Teowulff wrote:

Penthesilea :star:
Build: 1x/round may build a free legion in your capital for each of your territories occupied by opponent(s)
Leader Bonus (0)
Very situational and may not be triggered a lot in many games. What that’s concerned, Spartacus is way better as you can use him every turn. No leadership bonus either, which could have made her a more viable choice.


Interesting... mine gets +2 Culture, +2 Military. I picked her up in Sunday's game to move ahead on the tracks and that nearly won me the game.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
Drammattex wrote:
Teowulff wrote:

Penthesilea
Build: 1x/round may build a free legion in your capital for each of your territories occupied by opponent(s)
Leader Bonus (0)
Very situational and may not be triggered a lot in many games. What that’s concerned, Spartacus is way better as you can use him every turn. No leadership bonus either, which could have made her a more viable choice.


Interesting... mine gets +2 Culture, +2 Military. I picked her up in Sunday's game to move ahead on the tracks and that nearly won me the game.

I stand corrected! That way she's quite ok, actually.

Updated rating and poll. Thanks!!
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Sean D.
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
Some of these are much more powerful in certain circumstances so their value can change during those times. Some are powerful all the time. I rated the ones that didn't have any particular circumstance higher than the circumstantial H/W's. Cheers!
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Ian Madsen
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
According to the English rules, Castor & Pollux may only copy heroes belonging to other players, not your own, and does not copy leadership bonuses. Is that different in other languages?
 
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Steven Townshend
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
Teowulff wrote:
I stand corrected! That way she's quite ok, actually.

Updated rating and poll. Thanks!! ;)


You got it! I agree that she's conditional, but it's really nice when she's available on the turn you're being occupied.

In the game we played, I recruited her for the leadership bonuses and was later attacked and occupied by another player's armies. Suddenly it was very convenient to have an extra legion and the resultant military leader boost from that legion to keep me in power as military leader.

It didn't matter because another player (Greece) built the pyramids, but I went down swingin'!
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Aron R
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
Regarding your analysis of the Lighthouse, there are two Wood resources, in Dalmatia and Cappadocia. Ceramics are the rarest commodities, at least until you introduce Atlantis.
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Roger Reisinger
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
I agree some are more situational than others and Im also thinking of tweaking the heroes deck.

I might take out Castor and Pollox, Gigamesh, and Lighthouse and add Ciron, Croesus, and maybe one of the ks exclusives. We play 6 players with Atlas but dont add in the heroes for it.
 
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S. Mileta
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
Don't you feel Circa is a bit overpowered? Especially if I understood FAQ, that states her ability can be used even in neutral (without control marker) territories, correctly?
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
Zhovijalno wrote:
Don't you feel Circe is a bit overpowered? Especially if I understood FAQ, that states her ability can be used even in neutral (without control marker) territories, correctly?

Well yes, she can be very handy - but it just doesn't happen that often that you stay in unclaimed territories for many turns. And if you retreat your legions to your "hinterlands" you leave your border provinces weak. Next to that she offers no leadership bonusses.

AronR wrote:
Regarding your analysis of the Lighthouse, there are two Wood resources, in Dalmatia and Cappadocia. Ceramics are the rarest commodities, at least until you introduce Atlantis.

Thanks I corrected it! I must be getting a bit blind! blush
 
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Michael Sillion
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Re: Rate the core game heroes/wonders
We feel the Queen of Sheba is the most powerful hero in the game. Especially for Greece or Rome on a war path.

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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Sillion wrote:
We feel the Queen of Sheba is the most powerful hero in the game. Especially for Greece or Rome on a war path.

True that. There have been games that I wished I had her recruited! ;-) Especially since she also gives a few nice bonusses, she's not bad at all.

The thing with her is that your opponents immediately become alert when you recruit her. In particular when there's other heroes or wonders to be recruited that give more leadership bonusses.
 
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