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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Complexity of Races rss

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Stefan Nemeth
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Hi,

i'm working on Poker sized race cards for race selection.
They will not contain all the information (race specific technologies or flagships for example), just the most basic ones (special ability, home system, trade deals)

I also want to add a "complexity rating", because my target audience i mainly new or inexperienced players.
Therefore please consider, that the complexity rating should be about how difficult it is to get a grasp of how the race functions and not about the complex of a strategy you would have to pull off, to actually win a game with this race (e.g. Sardakk N'orr are of complexity "LOW", even though it will be hard to win a game with them.)

Poll: Complexity Rating
How relatively complex are the races of TI3?
  LOW MEDIUM HIGH
The Yssaril Tribes
The Emirates of Hacan
The L1Z1X Mindnet
Universities of Jol-Nar
The Naalu Collective
The Mentak Coalition
The Barony of Letnev
Federation of Sol
The Winnu
The Nekro Virus
The Ghosts of Creuss
The Arborec
The Clan of Saar
Embers of Muaat
The Xxcha Kingdom
Sardakk N'orr
The Yin Brotherhood
      56 answers
Poll created by Nemeth


PS: Other suggestions for these race cards are also welcome.
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Lance Harrop
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I'm not sure 'complexity' is the benchmark so much as how likely you are to forget to execute an important power of theirs.

Sardakk N'Orr are pretty easy to remember how to run, which is why EVERYBODY ('til now) voted them low complexity. Letnev and L1Z1X also pretty easy to play right.

Some of the newer races are damn difficult.

Yssaril take a lot of skill to play 'properly'.
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Starkiller
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I would add that the Hacan do not work very well for a player who does not want to "work with an opponent". Sometimes new players just want to sit in their corner of the galaxy, the Hacan is not good for that. I would try and steer that type of player away from them.

Also, I rate the Jol-Nar as medium difficulty, but find that new players frequntly want to try them. (science race) I always let them, they are not that hard.

You might want to have a blurb on the card about their strength (Sol and Naalu are fighter-centric, Yssaril have lots of action cards, ect.)
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Steve Williams
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For what it's worth, The Arborec are the hands down most difficult race to play. The ability is not hard to understand, but parsing out how your turns need to work when your spacedock can't build Ground Forces, and your Grandforces can't build if they move, gets really tricky.

I've yet to see the Arborec stabilize, let alone be in contention for winning a game. I've only played them two or three times in my 80+ games, and it always feels like a crazy bottleneck that barely even makes the build anywhere bonus worth it.
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Salman Qaisar
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IncrediSteve wrote:
... my 80+ games ...

surprise
WOW! Just WOW!
I haven't even played it once yet.
Bought it 2months ago.
Maybe I'll catch up one day...
 
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Scott Randolph
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IncrediSteve wrote:
For what it's worth, The Arborec are the hands down most difficult race to play. The ability is not hard to understand, but parsing out how your turns need to work when your spacedock can't build Ground Forces, and your Grandforces can't build if they move, gets really tricky.

I've yet to see the Arborec stabilize, let alone be in contention for winning a game. I've only played them two or three times in my 80+ games, and it always feels like a crazy bottleneck that barely even makes the build anywhere bonus worth it.


"[+1]"

The Arborec are indeed the most difficult.
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Scott Randolph
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Leifr wrote:
I'm not sure 'complexity' is the benchmark so much as how likely you are to forget to execute an important power of theirs.

Sardakk N'Orr are pretty easy to remember how to run, which is why EVERYBODY ('til now) voted them low complexity. Letnev and L1Z1X also pretty easy to play right.

Some of the newer races are damn difficult.

Yssaril take a lot of skill to play 'properly'.


"[+1]"

The Yssaril Tribes are the best Great Race in the game, unless played by a newer player, then they are fairly mediocre. Same with the Naalu Collective, "Initiative 0" in a close game among competitive players is probably the most powerful single ability in the game, but with a newer player, it means little and is more of a hindrance always having to go first.
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Scott Randolph
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Zalman wrote:
IncrediSteve wrote:
... my 80+ games ...

surprise
WOW! Just WOW!
I haven't even played it once yet.
Bought it 2months ago.
Maybe I'll catch up one day...


Our group has played 57, will play our 58th this Saturday, we're catching up lol.
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Steve Williams
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I get in most of my plays at Conventions, play it every day it's offered. Play maybe a half dozen games a year at home.

I've got the 4th most legitimate recorded plays of TI3, but that's probably where I'm going to stay. Passing Martin/Tawnos is potentially possible if I made a point out of it, but David and Lance will remain eternally out of reach for a mere mortal like me.
 
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Necessary Evil
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Glen Arm
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IncrediSteve wrote:
For what it's worth, The Arborec are the hands down most difficult race to play. The ability is not hard to understand, but parsing out how your turns need to work when your spacedock can't build Ground Forces, and your Grandforces can't build if they move, gets really tricky.

I've yet to see the Arborec stabilize, let alone be in contention for winning a game. I've only played them two or three times in my 80+ games, and it always feels like a crazy bottleneck that barely even makes the build anywhere bonus worth it.


I agree that they are the hardest to grasp. I have seen them win but its a different playstyle.


I have 67 plays down. Missing the WBC this year cost me 3 or 4 games, and I have not played online in a while.

I guess i need to get this on the table at game night this month.


-M
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Drew Lawson
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IncrediSteve wrote:
I get in most of my plays at Conventions, play it every day it's offered. Play maybe a half dozen games a year at home.

I've got the 4th most legitimate recorded plays of TI3, but that's probably where I'm going to stay. Passing Martin/Tawnos is potentially possible if I made a point out of it, but David and Lance will remain eternally out of reach for a mere mortal like me.


I was confused by "legitimate plays" until I looked at some of those listings. Now I'm confused about why someone would mark a TI3 play as Qty. 360... that mentally draining, eh?
 
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Jonathan Challis
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I don't log plays, but I was at 50ish 5-8 years ago. Sadly I'm only at about 55 or so now!
 
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Starkiller
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malloc wrote:
Missing the WBC this year cost me 3 or 4 games, and I have not played online in a while.

-M

Dang. Will you be at WBC again? One of my dreams is to play TI3 @ WBC, and I assumed you would be there. Did they not do it this year without you officiating?
 
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Greg Pratt
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As others have mentioned, difficulty in playing and skill level required to play well are two different things - some races are easy to play, but difficult to master. A measure of the skill level required to play the race well might be good.
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