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Subject: Insurance denied. Board game boxes are "retail packaging" and not covered. rss

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Mike P
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Living in Australia I often use Shipito to consolidate and deliver my board games that Amazon won't ship to Australia or which are cost prohibitive to send over individually.

My most recent batch was damaged, thanks to the fact that Shipito's warehouse didn't bother to include the extra padding (or any padding at all) that I paid extra for or the fragile sticker I paid for. They also just stacked the games inside the box so they could slide around inside.

WHen they arrived Mansions of Madness's box was crumpled, split open, and generally awful. Codenames pictures looked like an adult male had trodden heavily on one of the corners.

I know some people don't care about boxes, but for me they are part of the display aesthetic of the game and, let's face it, they are part of the functionality of the game unless you're one of the few people who don't use them for storage.

Anyhow. Shipito have denied my insurance claim because "insurance doesn't cover retail packaging.

I'm in the process of trying to explain that a boardgame box does not constitute retail packaging. The retail packaging of a board game is the plastic film the thing comes coated in.

Does anyone here consider a board game box "retail packaging"?

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Ken Lewis
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To me, as someone who works in retail, retail packaging is the disposable carton many products come in, and I can see why that is not covered by insurance. I can also see how an insurance company can bend that definition to include a game box by saying the box is the packaging and the contents inside are the actual product.

I think you need to find someone in the company who will listen to the explanation that, even though a game is sold in a box, the box is part of the product, and not just packaging. It might help if you show pictures of how the components are supposed to be stored in an insert inside the box, thus making the box a more integral part of the product.

I wish you luck getting reimbursed, but insurance companies tend to use definitions like that so they don't have to pay out.

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Mike P
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I've explained this to Shipito.

I'll see what they say.

I've calmed down a bit now, but it was really irritating to wake up this morning to a curt, canned reply about how my insurance was denied, after my lengthy and reasonable email discussions with various support-team members.

I can't get past the fact that this only happened because they didn't include the service I paid for (extra bubble wrap and fragile sticker). If their insurance won't pay out, they should. Personally I think Shipito are more liable than the insurer in this case.

Mike
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Roland Sanchez
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Wow man, that is a most heinous story. Subscribed just to see how it all turns out.
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Ken Lewis
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nemspy wrote:
I can't get past the fact that this only happened because they didn't include the service I paid for (extra bubble wrap and fragile sticker). If their insurance won't pay out, they should. Personally I think Shipito are more liable than the insurer in this case.

Mike


There should be some sort of restitution for you if you paid for a service and did not receive it. Especially since the service would have likely prevented the issue.

You may need to escalate the issue to someone higher up in the company who has more control over what gets denied and what gets approved.

When I had to work the guest service counter, there were many instances where I had to give the canned "I can't take this back" response because I didn't have the authority to override the system or policies, but the managers could and usually would if a customer pushed the issue. I think you need to push the issue.
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L S
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My suggested course of action would be to send them an image of a board game box where functionality for gameplay is indisputable. That would basically leave them the choice to either concede the issue or to engage in an expert discussion about board game boxes on a case-by-case basis.

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Aaron Brogdon
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Wow. When a game box that I shipped in a math trade got damaged, usps didn't have any problem covering it.
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Shoosh shoo
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If it were me i would break it down in this way. First i would demand to speak with someone who had authority to do something. Then, the things i would say are

The retail packaging is the cellophane wrapper. The game box is part of the product.

To support my claim that the box is the product i would say the box is an essential component bc it stores the contents

I would say i paid for a service and the terms were that i was buying undamaged products. These are clearly damaged, and there was no mention that you were selling me damaged items. If you had mentioned the products were damaged i should have been given the choice to not buy from you. When you go to the dealership and buy a new car, and the salespersons keys tear the leather seat as they get out of the car during a demo am i supposed to accept that its damaged and live with it (ok thats a bit off tangent so use a scenario that fits

I would also probably contact CGE and FfG and ask them if they consider the box a component or retail packaging... Then maybe they will support you and you can show that to the shipping company!

How did you pay for these things? Did you use paypal or a credit card? I would contact them and explain the situation. Im sure your credit card company or paypal will side with you. Bottom line is you paid money expecting that items would arrive intact and i. Sellable condition. I bet if you asked nongeeks out there "would you consider the condition these games are in as sellable?" Almost everyone would say no.

If you want to play dirty use social media and post your experience (without bashing the company and just sticking with the facts) and then direct the manager to those links. That cant be good for their future business!
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Mike P
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Shoosh,

The only issue there is that this company is not the seller they are a consolidator/freight forwarder.

The product they supplied was the consolidation, the extra padding, and the fragile sticker, plus the shipping itself. The fact that they did not include my extra safety items was the cause of the damage, and I think it is ludicrous that they are trying to palm this one off on the insurance company.

I definitely will be safely mentioning that I am an avid review writer, and English teacher, and I hold a journalism degree, so I have a way with words when I can be bothered to craft an articulate response. my review of the company could either be a glowing one about the excellent support I received after my items were damaged or it could be one that spoke about how I wasn't even offered a refund for the extra bubblewrap and sticker which I paid for but which was not provided.
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Mike P
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I paid with PayPal; however, unfortunately you do not pay for specific items with this company. Instead, you load credit into your account which can then be used to purchase services.
 
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Shoosh shoo
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so it sounds like you paid for the service of having them ship the items to you. Obviously you expected them to ship the items to you in the same condition that the seller offered.

I guess you could have the seller verify that the games were not damaged in any way when they sent them. You paid for a service, which failed (failed by not delivering them in the same condition they were sent out). At the very least you should be able to get reimbursed for the shipping charge, but if you paid insurance... I was always under the impression that the insurance was supposed to cover damage to stuff while in transit. You might have to read through the agreement, or quote the advertised service.

I cannot stand when companies do shit like this! It's like when I worked for companies who sold extended warranties on products. I heard sales people say "you can buy this computer, take it outside, run over it with your car, and if you have the warranty then we will replace it no questions asked!" The customer then buys the warranty thinking there will be no questions asked, but then the company explains a "loophole" that keeps them from offering a suitable replacement. This kind of practice should be illegal!

If it were me I would demand my full amount refunded. I would have settled for a discount if it was a complete mistake but if they want to be a holes about it then I would demand ALL my money back. Regardless of how they handle the situation I would post the crappy experience EVERYWHERE to let people know. As far as I'm concerned if you gave them the chance to make it right and they screwed you, then make life difficult for them. I have no patience for companies that operate like this.
 
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Chris Dragon
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I would make an analogy to books. Are book covers "retail packaging" or an actual part of the product. Obviously if your book covers were destroyed, they would hopefully not shut you down. Best of luck with this case. Hope you get it resolved.
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Larry L
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I shake my fist at that company. Board game boxes aren't like toy boxes to be opened and thrown out. shake
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Roger Dodger
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It seems backwards that the buyer is paying for insurance that covers damage to the goods that were purchased. So in effect the shipper can throw damaged items in a flimsy box, blame it on the shipper, and the buyer is on the hook to make it right?

I don't understand. It's not how it works when the guys at my job sell things on ebay.

 
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Jeff Saxton
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PizzaAroma wrote:
I would make an analogy to books. Are book covers "retail packaging" or an actual part of the product. Obviously if your book covers were destroyed, they would hopefully not shut you down. Best of luck with this case. Hope you get it resolved.


Yet in today's market, Amazon, and all the major used book dealers like them on ABE just toss the book in a plastic envelope and mail it to you. Maybe if you are lucky, they use one of those fold-up cardboard mailers, but 90% of the time, it's a plastic bag. The book arrives dinged and damaged, and they say "too bad".

[Based on this, I have a list of about 35 used book dealers / warehousing firms who I will never buy from. Since Amazon owns ABEBooks now, and ABE has been flooded with Amazon affiliated or owned re-sellers, the complaints do no good.]
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Alex Packwood
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Definitely don't give in!

I had a similar thing happen. I used a freight forwarder to purchase Descent 1e from a BGG user and have it sent to NZ. It wasn't cheap, ~$90NZ shipping, and I was worried about them repacking, so phoned them to tell them it was OOP and to take care. They didn't. They repacked it to make shipping more cost effective for me, but put it loose in the shipping box. It arrived very damaged with torn sides etc, but luckily the components were ok.

After several emails and phone calls where I sent them photos and explained the game box was part of the product, not disposible packaging, they not only refunded the shipping but reimbursed me the cost of the game so I could buy a replacement.
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T. Nomad
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nemspy wrote:
Does anyone here consider a board game box "retail packaging"?

Yes. I do.

(though I'm still sorry for the way you were treated)
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Robert Moore
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My basic argument would be that games with damaged boxes are marked down in value, therefore a damaged box affects the value of the game. Point them in the direction of any company that sells ding and dent games at a discount to prove this point. USPS, FedEx, and UPS usually acknowledge this point when you process an insurance claim with them, so there is a clear precedent set by other shipping entities.
Ask any gamer if they'd prefer their game to come in a pristine box or a box that looks like it's been thrown down a flight of stairs - my assumption is that most would want the pristine box (and maybe a small number would say they wouldn't care). This establishes that damaged boxes affect perceived value and, should you want to sell or trade the game later on, its marketability or tradeability has been negatively impacted as well.
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Jared
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tommynomad wrote:
nemspy wrote:
Does anyone here consider a board game box "retail packaging"?

Yes. I do.

(though I'm still sorry for the way you were treated)


How do you store your games after you dispose of the boxes?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Why aren't these stored in zip lock bags instead of their retail packaging?
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Jason
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Mack_me_Bucko wrote:
PizzaAroma wrote:
I would make an analogy to books. Are book covers "retail packaging" or an actual part of the product. Obviously if your book covers were destroyed, they would hopefully not shut you down. Best of luck with this case. Hope you get it resolved.


Yet in today's market, Amazon, and all the major used book dealers like them on ABE just toss the book in a plastic envelope and mail it to you. Maybe if you are lucky, they use one of those fold-up cardboard mailers, but 90% of the time, it's a plastic bag. The book arrives dinged and damaged, and they say "too bad".

[Based on this, I have a list of about 35 used book dealers / warehousing firms who I will never buy from. Since Amazon owns ABEBooks now, and ABE has been flooded with Amazon affiliated or owned re-sellers, the complaints do no good.]
I purchased a book a little under a year ago from Amazon that arrived banged up. Amazon had no problem replacing the item, and the replacement actually had packaging to protect the item. It wouldn't surprise me if their default is to ship it as cheaply as possible and see if the customer complains.
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Steve B
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Send them a link to this thread
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Val Ofiesh
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Send them comparative data on re-sale of the game when it's only the components versus in the box. Your local stores or auctions on-line can provide some substantiation of your position.

Our re-sale shops won't accept games that are not in those original boxes and the box condition factors into the game valuation.
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T. Nomad
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stlm wrote:
tommynomad wrote:
nemspy wrote:
Does anyone here consider a board game box "retail packaging"?

Yes. I do.

(though I'm still sorry for the way you were treated)


How do you store your games after you dispose of the boxes?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Why aren't these stored in zip lock bags instead of their retail packaging?

Wow. Good find. The answer is because that's a picture from several years (and a couple moves) ago. Many of those games are now in cut-down boxes, A4 zipper bags, or gone from the collection entirely.
 
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Mike P
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tommynomad wrote:
[q="stlm"]
Wow. Good find. The answer is because that's a picture from several years (and a couple moves) ago. Many of those games are now in cut-down boxes, A4 zipper bags, or gone from the collection entirely.


OK, but can we agree that you're in the minority and that it's just a space concern for you?

The thought of damaging, let alone destroying my boxes is appalling to me.
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Chris Stanton
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I'm just wondering if they consider the box for Niagara 'retail packaging'?
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