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Robert Factor
United States
San Leandro
California
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I am Volko Ruhnke's medulla oblongata....
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The following has occurred in a couple of instances in games we've been playing, but we're still uncertain whether the method we're using is canon. For clarity's sake, here's the exact scenario:

Location: Poland
Location status: Still owned by Russia, never occupied by an enemy power, completely cut off from friendly territory and, thus, unsupplied. All provinces surrounding Poland are enemy-controlled, each containing enemy armies. In short, retreat is not an option for the Russians.
Defenders: 2 Russian Armies (fresh), 1 Un-fired Russian Heavy Artillery (no C1 counter-battery tech available)
Attackers: 4 AH Armies (fresh), 1 AH Heavy Artillery

Combat result: 2 Russian Armies defeated (i.e., both now spent). 2 AH Armies spent, AH Big Push +1 in effect. 1 of the remaining 2 fresh AH armies successfully rolls against defending SPENT unit; a retreat of all spent units is required.

Question: There is still a fresh, Russian Heavy Arty unit remaining. Note that it is not "alone" as it is currently with 2 spent/defeated Russian armies. So... must it retreat as well (and, therefore, be eliminated)?

Our solution in the past (I think a similar situation happened only once before, actually) was to assume the arty to be "dead" as well and forced to retreat. We did not interpret the arty as a "garrison" since it was not "alone" as required in the rules. Had it been the only unit there when combat was initiated, we would certainly have treated it as a garrison unit. As it stands, however, our interpretation is that both Russian armies as well as the Russian Heavy Arty unit must retreat and, having nowhere to retreat to, are ALL permanently eliminated. Is our methodology correct?

I searched for various word combinations here as well as CSW.... Couldn't find a reference to a precisely similar situation.
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Hey Robert!
I don't have the rules in front of me, but I believe somewhere it says that the Artillery has to retreat with the armies. So your interpretation is correct - all are eliminated due to not being able to retreat.

Great question and thanks for posting it. I'm sure Kirk will chime in if I'm wrong.

By the way, the other thing people keep forgetting is that Poland is a Russian area at start and many gamers have ignored that fact, going around it - just to have a Russian army zoom in there later in the game. I almost always attack the garrison there with an A-H army to establish it as friendly-controlled and avoid a sudden rear attack.

Herm
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Robert Factor
United States
San Leandro
California
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I am Volko Ruhnke's medulla oblongata....
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HORST324 wrote:
Hey Robert!
I don't have the rules in front of me, but I believe somewhere it says that the Artillery has to retreat with the armies. So your interpretation is correct - all are eliminated due to not being able to retreat.


Thanks, Hermann. Indeed, the rules say as such, but a post regarding a similar situation at CSW made us stop and think. Much obliged for the reply and confirmation.

HORST324 wrote:
By the way, the other thing people keep forgetting is that Poland is a Russian area at start and many gamers have ignored that fact, going around it - just to have a Russian army zoom in there later in the game. I almost always attack the garrison there with an A-H army to establish it as friendly-controlled and avoid a sudden rear attack.


Extremely sound advice. Indeed, leaving that 'corridor' open is a definite no-no. This particular game had some interesting quirks to it as the Germans made an all-out push to the gates of Paris in early game, leaving the Austro-Hungarians to hold the Russians. Unfortunately, not all went perfectly according to plan and Prussia was lost to the Russians early. Much of the next two years saw the Russians holding the position, meandering into Poland and pushing hard against Posen, even taking it for a season.

Long story short is that -- through a fortuitous play by the Germans and AH allies -- the Russians were pushed all the way out and those armies were trapped in Poland. A breakout was tried, but the costly "1's" that were rolled sealed their fate. Pretty dramatic, I'll tell you.

I'm dragging this on, but I'll wrap it up by saying the above is why I really, really like Lamps. Every game -- at various times, even very EARLY ones (i.e., 1915) -- I find myself saying: "I just lost the war" or, conversely, "I just won the war", only to have the situation play out differently. I might still lose/win, as it were, but the push-pull tide of the war keeps everyone guessing. It feels very ... historical.

AND it's playable in an evening! That fact and the experiences related above really hit the spot for me.
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