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Subject: Is RR a good gateway plus game? rss

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Dmitri Dolgov
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I have a few people coming over for a game night. They are relatively new to the hobby, but we've already played Ticket to Ride, Settlers and Lords of Waterdeep, which they seemed to enjoy. Is it a good idea to try to play RR with them or is it too heavy? Alternatives could be Glass Road or even Caverna, although the theme of RR is very attractive.
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Bryant Hudson
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I think so. The options are pretty straightforward. However, an experienced player is going to beat new players easily. When you first look at all the options and the tracks, it isn't apparent on what to do. Most new players try a little bit of everything rather than going for a focused strategy. Also, a new player isn't going to plan out the timing of getting your bonus markers ahead of others, etc. So, if an experienced player is playing with a bunch of new ones, the experienced player needs to hold back or point out things to consider along the way (a teaching game).
 
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Cole Munro-Chitty
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I would say RR and Caverna are both next level games, I would ask them if they are comfortable learning and spending the time (prob a lot longer on those games) playing a next step type of game. And then see which theme appeals most to them.
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Christopher Dearlove
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I like Russian Railroads. But I wouldn't make it next after Ticket to Ride.

The problem is summarised by that if you and I sit down to play RR and I have a plan and you don't, I will win. (I may or may not create really good plans. But they are good enough for that to be true.)

A few people can pick up the rules and make a plan and follow it on their first game. There may be some who can do it without playing a lot of different games, but I've yet to meet any of them. The first game but have a plan people I know have played a lot of games.

So if there's much variation of experience in your group, I think you might get the situation I describe. But maybe that doesn't matter. Some people can take that. (My sequence with Food Chain Magnate - which has this even more so - went humiliation, loss, challenge.) However I think it makes it a risky choice.
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Geeky McGeekface
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I don't think so. I think it's a pretty challenging game and could be overwhelming to relative newbies. I think something like Glass Road would be a better option.
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Ken Bush
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Larry Levy wrote:
I don't think so. I think it's a pretty challenging game and could be overwhelming to relative newbies. I think something like Glass Road would be a better option.

Me too
 
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Jorge
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Russian Railroads is really my favorite worker placement game for the time being, but I wouldn't advice it as a "gateway plus" game. It's not that heavy to learn, but it's a pure engine-building game, i.e., long-term thinking is half the gameplay. A casual gamer could find it difficult to wrap her mind around it.

I would instead propose Stone Age, for me it's "the" gateway worker placement game, definitely in par with Ticket to Ride.
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john ford
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I introduced a couple coworkers to RR after they felt our group had mastered Settlers of Catan, but they'd never played a worker-placement game before. In retrospect, I wish I'd tried Stone Age and then Agricola on them first to give them a feel for the mechanics and planning. Not an unrecoverable error, but the result is my forehead is a lot flatter now.
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Dmitri Dolgov
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Thanks for all the suggestions.thumbsup

bhudson1972 wrote:
...a new player isn't going to plan out the timing of getting your bonus markers ahead of others, etc. So, if an experienced player is playing with a bunch of new ones, the experienced player needs to hold back or point out things to consider along the way (a teaching game).

That's probably true for most of the gateway plus or even gateway games. Besides, I am far from being an expert myself.

Picon wrote:

I would instead propose Stone Age, for me it's "the" gateway worker placement game, definitely in par with Ticket to Ride.

I agree Stone Age would be a great choice, but I do not own it, and they seem to be hard to find currently (both of my local FLGS do not have them).

Larry Levy wrote:
I don't think so. I think it's a pretty challenging game and could be overwhelming to relative newbies. I think something like Glass Road would be a better option.

Glass Road is a great game, but I am not sure how attractive it would be to "newcomers", with it's unassuming theme, relatively small table presence and shorter length (less time to figure out what's going on).

byrdalumnus wrote:
I introduced a couple coworkers to RR after they felt our group had mastered Settlers of Catan, but they'd never played a worker-placement game before. In retrospect, I wish I'd tried Stone Age

I played two full games of Lords of Waterdeep with these guys, so they should be familiar with worker placement mechanism.

I also own 7 Wonders, which is considered "gateway plus", however I do not quite agree with that, given the initial overload of information when you try to teach the game.

What about Dead of Winter? I recently played it at a L2P event and very much enjoyed the ambiance, although the decision space was lacking. I would need to procure a copy though.
 
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Phil Triest
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Yes
 
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