$15.00
$20.00
$5.00
Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
52 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

The Warriors: Turf War» Forums » General

Subject: Kickstarter Comments rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
I have seen a bit of talk in the campaign comments speculating about why this game hasn't funded yet and figured I'd offer a bit more in depth explanation as to why the game isn't for me.

Allocation Cards: I don’t need a special card to separate my gang members into the different skirmishes. Dropping them would save you money. EDIT: Why do the gangs have to be split up for each round of skirmishes? The Warriors were split up because they were being chased by the police, not because they wanted to cover more ground. Making players split up their gang seems more like an event for a single skirmish and not the normal way the game should be played.

Movement Dice: I don't like the arbitrary movement modifiers and the fact that there is a component dedicated to it. Dropping them would save you money and make your game lighter.

Health Dice: This is an expensive way to track health. Like the movement dice. Dropping them would save you money and make your game lighter. You could probably just add a health bar to a gang member’s card and use a token to track each individual’s health.

Gang Boxes: As cool as these boxes are, to me they are a waste of money, space, and weight. Dropping them would save you money and make your game lighter and potentially fit in a smaller box. EDIT: I hope those quick reference cards aren't attached to those boxes. I don't like the idea of having to keep the box open on the table to see the reference card. I'd rather just have the reference card as it would take up less space on the table.

Painted Minis: I do not need painted minis to enjoy the game and would have been happy with monochromatic figures molded in a color best suited to the gang. Going to unpainted minis would save you money and likely production time and the hassle of working through all of the issues associated with prepainted minis. EDIT: As someone who has played Heroclix, the quality of a prepainted mini will vary from game box to game box and even within the same game box, with some looking great and others not so great. Figures with googly eyes is one issue that seems to pop up often and it is one I really hate.

Base Clips: I don't see the need for special identification clips for the figures. I would have preferred some other form of identification were used, such as a special symbol sculpted onto the figure's base. Dropping those clips would save you money and reduce the weight of your game. EDIT: I think the promotion mechanic should be reworked so that there isn't a need for a special component for it

Police Minis: I do not need a bunch of unique sculpts for the police units. I would just create a single sculpt for each type of police unit. This would save you money. EDIT: I also think the police tracker could have just used a badge token instead of a meeple/plastic police car.

Turf Boards: I am assuming the Turf boards are double sided. I would have liked to see different types of terrain on the boards and have that terrain be used for movement modifiers instead of a random die roll. I also think you could probably get away with dropping the Turf cards and going with a format where the loser of the previous skirmish gets to choose the next Turf (with the first Turf getting to be chosen by player 2) EDIT: I just noticed that the scale on the turf boards looks way off in regards to the miniatures. On one board there is a chair to big to fit in an entire square and on another board there is a car that doesn't even take up 1/3 of a square. I hope the finished boards have a scale that is consistent with the miniatures.

Scenarios: I got the impression that the game was essentially just about combat and that it didn’t really have much in the way of scenarios or alternate victory conditions. This is something that I would have fleshed out more for the game. I also would have included the solo movie campaign in the base game as it is essentially what the game is licensed from.

Gang Powers: The gang powers could use a little work. The Lizzies power only works if the Warlord is on the board. The Warriors power only works if the gang member survives an attack and it is a reactionary power instead of an active power like the other gangs. I think the Rogues and the Furies powers are fine, assuming they have proven to be balanced. I also think the special powers for the types of gang members seems to be mostly uninspired modifiers. EDIT: I misread this in the rulebook (specifically my comment about The Lizzies), but I still think the powers could use a little work.

Rules: I don’t like the rigid way the characters act. This can create first player advantages since that player always knows the order his opponent’s gang members are going to act. This also stifles tactics and strategy since you are stuck moving in a set order and can’t react to the things on the board as well. Allowing more freedom of which gang members can move will make the game play more dynamic and tense.

Objective: 3 rounds with 5 skirmishes total seems excessive. I would think that playing 3 skirmishes would be better for the basic objective. This would also allow you to reduce the included Turf boards from 6 to 4 (2 double sided boards)which would reduce cost and weight.

Rulebook: That rulebook needs a lot of work, the rules don't seem to flow together and I found myself searching for answers in places other than where I thought they should be, sometimes I couldn't find the answer. EDIT: A couple of questions I didn't see answered are, how many gang members can fit in a single square and can I use a ranged weapon to shoot through an occupied square?

Price: All of the above brings me to price. I think the game, as it stands right now, is not worth $80. I think the game could be cheaper and/or feature more dynamic game play if more thought was put into the game’s production and mechanics. EDIT: The components in the game may be worth $80 or more, I just don't think there is $80 worth of "game" included, and I want a good game, not just a licensed game with pretty components. I also think a lot of the "bling" that has been added to the game should have been used as stretch goals.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been on a fence about this KS. I keep thinking that as much as I love the property, that this game just isn't quite cooked yet. I agree, it seems to be over-produced, under-edited, and perhaps a bit grandiose for a first game. The majority of the art is gorgeous; there's definitely some talent there. But it's tough to commit to at $80, let alone $100.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe B
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
These are well reasoned and expressed comments/criticisms. I find it hard to disagree with any of them.

However, there is no evidence that the designers pay attention this forum.

I backed strictly based on the license. At the moment I'm about 60/40 in favor of cancelling. It's a shame, really. I would love to have a Warriors game on my shelf.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
cromatoast wrote:
These are well reasoned and expressed comments/criticisms. I find it hard to disagree with any of them.

However, there is no evidence that the designers pay attention this forum.

I backed strictly based on the license. At the moment I'm about 60/40 in favor of cancelling. It's a shame, really. I would love to have a Warriors game on my shelf.


I imagine that the game will likely fund on the back of the license and the painted miniatures. But, I'm looking for a game that is more than just "eye candy" on the table. I want a solid gaming experience that pulls me into the narrative, and I just don't see that happening with the game's current rules.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I dropped tonight. I love the source material, but there are just too many things working against this game. It doesn't feel organic, there are too many extraneous components, and I can't shake the feeling that the creators are in over their heads.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
I went ahead and posted my comments to the Kickstarter. Hopefully they help them change the game for the better and hopefully I worded them in ways that will help.

I have edited my original post with some new comments since I misread a few things, but the point largely remains the same for the original comment.

I feel bad when I write criticism like this, but I really like the property and want the game to be the best game it could be.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The War Chief
United States
Parkville
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
BRING ME THE HEAD OF SETH NEMEC AND RIK FALCH!!!!!!
badge
In Memorial: Moose, my dog. B:? D:01/13/16. He died peacefully surrounded by those who loved him. You will be missed.
mbmbmbmbmb
Got in on an early bird special, but I'm really on the fence about dropping out.

The pledges have been stagnent for the past couple of days. They haven't met minimum funding yet.

No independent reviews. A fairly unimpressive play through video on the campaign page.

Prepainted minatures with no production examples. The potential delays caused by this alone is worrisome.

I'm going to stay in until close to the end to see how many stretch goals they hit, but at this price, it's going to have to be quite a few to keep me from dropping out.

It's now a wait and see situation.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
BC Wendel
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I just recently backed this (there was one Early Bird left), but I am very leery of it. I don't trust that the game will be out on time, that the miniatures will be good, that it will play well, etc.

I HOPE so, but I don't have that much faith.

I actually just watched the Warriors for the first time, on Netflix (it was going away on Oct 1st), and bought the PS2 game on PS4. So I'm now a committed fan, but this KS seems a bit scary.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
I hope the designers start showing more insight into how the game was designed and why they chose the mechanics they did.

The split mechanic has me concerned as a player and as a designer. I get the impression that how you split your gang can mean the difference between winning and losing regardless of how well you play and that shouldn't be the case. The designer even states in the video that he prefers a 6/3 split as it "guarantees" him a win (I'm assuming he means the win is "guaranteed" if his opponent goes for a more even split or he gets lucky and his opponent chose a low number of gang members for that skirmish).

When I first read the rules I was thinking a 6/3 split would be better for the skirmishes each round as numbers seem to be the way to victory. I'd gladly throw a skirmish (fulfill the conditions to flee than flee saving as many gang members as possible for future skirmishes) if it practically guaranteed me a win for the other skirmish.

I'm not sure the "split your gang" rounds are good for the game and would like them to explain why it is needed considering how random and unbalanced it can make the match ups (and there is no telling how much more randomness the "Tune In" deck will add to the game.)

I also think that losing gang members over the course of the game can make for some pretty uneven matches later in the game. I'd rather that only gang members that were arrested were removed from the game and that models that were KO'd play the next round injured (they have modifiers to attack and/or defense) or they can sit out the round to "heal" for a later skirmish.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jimmy Hsu
United States
Astoria
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I kickstarted their first campaign just because it's the Warriors.... and after it was cancelled I was relieved.

The game seems far too complicated and uninteresting for something as simple as a "gang" turf war.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This has been an interesting KS. They seem to be shedding backers about as quickly as they gain them. It also looks like that had three individual days where individual backers pledged over $1000. Is it reasonable to worry that these pledges might be inaccurately inflating the actual amount of money pledged, and that this project won't fund?

On 10/23, they had 734 backers, and $56,175 pledged.

On 11/3, they have 735 backers (a net gain of 1), and $62,367 pledged (a net gain of $6,192).

Is this legit, or are numbers being inflated to show the project as funded, in order to entice more backers?

Edited to close parentheses.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The War Chief
United States
Parkville
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
BRING ME THE HEAD OF SETH NEMEC AND RIK FALCH!!!!!!
badge
In Memorial: Moose, my dog. B:? D:01/13/16. He died peacefully surrounded by those who loved him. You will be missed.
mbmbmbmbmb
Their new partner, the company that publishes The Warriors comic book, pumped pledges into the project to get them over the minimal funding goal.

It's been a flat line project ever since.

Probably going to bail on this one.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe B
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Springheeledjack wrote:
Their new partner, the company that publishes The Warriors comic book, pumped pledges into the project to get them over the minimal funding goal.

It's been a flat line project ever since.

Probably going to bail on this one.


Wow. That's an interesting revelation. I'm not sure I should take your word for it (no offense), but it doesn't seem far-fetched.

I think this game is a dud. However, I'm trying to decide if it is worth my ~$100 just for the "toy" factor as a cool collectible.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
cromatoast wrote:
Springheeledjack wrote:
Their new partner, the company that publishes The Warriors comic book, pumped pledges into the project to get them over the minimal funding goal.

It's been a flat line project ever since.

Probably going to bail on this one.


Wow. That's an interesting revelation. I'm not sure I should take your word for it (no offense), but it doesn't seem far-fetched.

I think this game is a dud. However, I'm trying to decide if it is worth my ~$100 just for the "toy" factor as a cool collectible.



It is true. The publisher mentioned that he purchased copies of the game for his staff in the comment section of the Kickstarter and also mentioned the possibility of purchasing more as gifts to help raise the total if needed.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe B
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Giant_Monster wrote:
cromatoast wrote:
Springheeledjack wrote:
Their new partner, the company that publishes The Warriors comic book, pumped pledges into the project to get them over the minimal funding goal.

It's been a flat line project ever since.

Probably going to bail on this one.


Wow. That's an interesting revelation. I'm not sure I should take your word for it (no offense), but it doesn't seem far-fetched.

I think this game is a dud. However, I'm trying to decide if it is worth my ~$100 just for the "toy" factor as a cool collectible.



It is true. The publisher mentioned that he purchased copies of the game for his staff in the comment section of the Kickstarter and also mentioned the possibility of purchasing more as gifts to help raise the total if needed.



OK, then. I missed that.

My point about the collectible aspect still stands. Tough decision to make in the next several days.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
cromatoast wrote:
Giant_Monster wrote:
cromatoast wrote:
Springheeledjack wrote:
Their new partner, the company that publishes The Warriors comic book, pumped pledges into the project to get them over the minimal funding goal.

It's been a flat line project ever since.

Probably going to bail on this one.


Wow. That's an interesting revelation. I'm not sure I should take your word for it (no offense), but it doesn't seem far-fetched.

I think this game is a dud. However, I'm trying to decide if it is worth my ~$100 just for the "toy" factor as a cool collectible.



It is true. The publisher mentioned that he purchased copies of the game for his staff in the comment section of the Kickstarter and also mentioned the possibility of purchasing more as gifts to help raise the total if needed.



OK, then. I missed that.

My point about the collectible aspect still stands. Tough decision to make in the next several days.


I don't collect things for the sake of collecting them, so that is an easy decision for me.

My #1 reason for backing, just for the add ons, was to potentially use the figures as gangers in the new edition of Necromunda that is rumored to come out next year. I still might, I just don't like not knowing the quality or sculpts of the miniatures.

I asked two questions and was told I'd get an answer, but I never did. The first question was what material are the figures made out of and the second question was asking for a side by side comparison of the renders so I could determine if there was a consistent scale between them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe B
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Giant_Monster wrote:
cromatoast wrote:
Giant_Monster wrote:
cromatoast wrote:
Springheeledjack wrote:
Their new partner, the company that publishes The Warriors comic book, pumped pledges into the project to get them over the minimal funding goal.

It's been a flat line project ever since.

Probably going to bail on this one.


Wow. That's an interesting revelation. I'm not sure I should take your word for it (no offense), but it doesn't seem far-fetched.

I think this game is a dud. However, I'm trying to decide if it is worth my ~$100 just for the "toy" factor as a cool collectible.



It is true. The publisher mentioned that he purchased copies of the game for his staff in the comment section of the Kickstarter and also mentioned the possibility of purchasing more as gifts to help raise the total if needed.



OK, then. I missed that.

My point about the collectible aspect still stands. Tough decision to make in the next several days.


I don't collect things for the sake of collecting them, so that is an easy decision for me.

My #1 reason for backing, just for the add ons, was to potentially use the figures as gangers in the new edition of Necromunda that is rumored to come out next year. I still might, I just don't like not knowing the quality or sculpts of the miniatures.

I asked two questions and was told I'd get an answer, but I never did. The first question was what material are the figures made out of and the second question was asking for a side by side comparison of the renders so I could determine if there was a consistent scale between them.


That's fair. I'm very disappointed by the fact that the designers/developers do not engage the BGG community.

Just to clarify: I didn't mean collectible as in "this will be worth more money in the future," I simply meant that it would be cool to have figures and dice of the gangs from The Warriors.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
cromatoast wrote:
Giant_Monster wrote:
cromatoast wrote:
Giant_Monster wrote:
cromatoast wrote:
Springheeledjack wrote:
Their new partner, the company that publishes The Warriors comic book, pumped pledges into the project to get them over the minimal funding goal.

It's been a flat line project ever since.

Probably going to bail on this one.


Wow. That's an interesting revelation. I'm not sure I should take your word for it (no offense), but it doesn't seem far-fetched.

I think this game is a dud. However, I'm trying to decide if it is worth my ~$100 just for the "toy" factor as a cool collectible.



It is true. The publisher mentioned that he purchased copies of the game for his staff in the comment section of the Kickstarter and also mentioned the possibility of purchasing more as gifts to help raise the total if needed.



OK, then. I missed that.

My point about the collectible aspect still stands. Tough decision to make in the next several days.


I don't collect things for the sake of collecting them, so that is an easy decision for me.

My #1 reason for backing, just for the add ons, was to potentially use the figures as gangers in the new edition of Necromunda that is rumored to come out next year. I still might, I just don't like not knowing the quality or sculpts of the miniatures.

I asked two questions and was told I'd get an answer, but I never did. The first question was what material are the figures made out of and the second question was asking for a side by side comparison of the renders so I could determine if there was a consistent scale between them.


That's fair. I'm very disappointed by the fact that the designers/developers do not engage the BGG community.

Just to clarify: I didn't mean collectible as in "this will be worth more money in the future," I simply meant that it would be cool to have figures and dice of the gangs from The Warriors.


I figured that was what you meant. I am "anti-clutter" so if I won't get enough use out of something I won't buy it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Springheeledjack wrote:
Their new partner, the company that publishes The Warriors comic book, pumped pledges into the project to get them over the minimal funding goal.


Oof.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
One thing that has really bugged me about this campaign is that they have been asked by several different people, sometimes several times, about independent game reviews, design insight, and playtester feedback, but they ignore those questions.

That is a HUGE red flag to me and it makes me think this game was designed and "playtested" by a small group of people who work for the company.

How can a company say they are 100% behind the design of their game when they won't even talk about the design process or send it out for independent review?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Waggly Bean
United Kingdom
Walsall
West Midlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Giant_Monster wrote:
One thing that has really bugged me about this campaign is that they have been asked by several different people, sometimes several times, about independent game reviews, design insight, and playtester feedback, but they ignore those questions.

That is a HUGE red flag to me and it makes me think this game was designed and "playtested" by a small group of people who work for the company.

How can a company say they are 100% behind the design of their game when they won't even talk about the design process or send it out for independent review?



I agree. I really do think the it's a red-flag project for a bunch of reasons. It is only the license that is keeping it afloat at all I'm sure.

I want to back this 100%, but I just can't shake the feeling that perhaps they're in over their heads at this point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Lewis
United States
Cumming
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
All of those people asking for new things to be add-ons will likely cause the campaign to fail quicker if SKG listens to them. Look at how well the gang add-ons have worked for them.

I think one of the reasons so many people have left is that in order to get The Orphans and Riffs they have to spend more money. The majority of backers don't want to spend money on additional game components that they could have gotten for free as stretch goals.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe B
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
At this point it looks like the game is going to de-fund, barring some insider intervention.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Waggly Bean
United Kingdom
Walsall
West Midlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
cromatoast wrote:
At this point it looks like the game is going to de-fund, barring some insider intervention.


I kind of think that would be best, as they could step back for a few months, revise their campaign PROPERLY and relaunch a much more clean and appealing Kickstarter project. As it'd be a while after Christmas, people would hopefully have more money to drop on it too. There's a huge amount of competition on Kickstarter at the minute too, and if people have to choose, they're generally going to pick the campaigns that have loads of unlocked stretch goals already.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The War Chief
United States
Parkville
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
BRING ME THE HEAD OF SETH NEMEC AND RIK FALCH!!!!!!
badge
In Memorial: Moose, my dog. B:? D:01/13/16. He died peacefully surrounded by those who loved him. You will be missed.
mbmbmbmbmb
wagglybean wrote:
cromatoast wrote:
At this point it looks like the game is going to de-fund, barring some insider intervention.


I kind of think that would be best, as they could step back for a few months, revise their campaign PROPERLY and relaunch a much more clean and appealing Kickstarter project. As it'd be a while after Christmas, people would hopefully have more money to drop on it too. There's a huge amount of competition on Kickstarter at the minute too, and if people have to choose, they're generally going to pick the campaigns that have loads of unlocked stretch goals already.


You do realize that this is their second attempt for this project on KS.whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.