Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
53 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: ASL, Curt Schilling, and Trump rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: BGG_Celebrities [+] asbestos_martyr_club [+] [View All]
Paul Franklin-Bihary
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I know I'm wading into some murky depths here, but as a human with a conscience I can't help myself.

I also know that a large percentage of the general population of ASL players are probably quite different than myself politically, at least based on my limited interactions with people from the hobby.

Bear with me. I'm going to try to do this right.

This week, Curt Schilling, one-third co-owner of MMP, entered the national political media spotlight because of his planned run for senate and his conversation about Jewish support for Democrats on CNN. It is now pretty clear that he supports Donald Trump for President and is in stark opposition to my own political positions on almost every issue.

As a gamer and huge fan of ASL, I'm really torn.

ASL is one of my favorite games of all time, and I really want to support a niche wargame company like MMP which is doing its part to keep our hobby alive and viable. Generally, I try to let how I spend my money do some political talking. For example, I don't order Domino's or Papa John's pizza because of these companies' connection to anti-abortion groups and anti-union positions regarding worker's rights. I get my pizza from a local company that treats their employees well.

Can I do this with MMP? Should I do this with MMP? Should I boycott this company that makes great games because of my politics?

There isn't an 'alternative' place to get their product. I can't give the money to my local game shops because they don't carry the product and part of that money would still get back to Schilling in some fashion. I have a very hard time justifying putting my money into the pocket of someone whom I know supports the man I consider to be one of the most damaging and dangerous ever to put their name into consideration for the highest office of our nation. This financial support may also in some way help Schilling's chances of becoming a Senator who would then work to push similar agendas and positions into law.

I hate when politics and gaming collide, but this is a whammy.

What do you all think?

I may be stupid for thinking that we can start a conversation about this, which is surely going to be difficult. I'm going to anyway. I'll probably be condemned instantly. Oh well. I trust BGG and our amazing community to have some intelligent comments about this.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gordon Watson
United Kingdom
Banstead
Surrey - United Kingdom
flag msg tools
ASL - other tactical wargames call it Sir.
badge
Beneath this mask there is an idea.....and ideas are bulletproof.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If the profits from MMP () were funding his (or Trump's) political campaign then you may want to pass on buying product from MMP - however as I doubt that is the case, i.e. profits are small, and used merely to help MMP fund additional games, then I think you are good to continue to buy ASL from them. From what I understand they are a self-standing organisation existing purely to produce wargames and not part of a corporate Schilling empire.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Lowry
United States
Sunnyvale
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From what I recall being said at the time of the collapse of 38 Studios, there have been NO financial ties between Curt and MMP for years (probably approaching two decades at this point).
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Weber
Germany
Wendeburg
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have high respect for your thoughts, but I guess with your idea to link your expenses to "clean political" purchases (from you point of view, I mean) you likely end up buying no more wargames at all...

7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean
France
Paris
2ème
flag msg tools
Afghanistan Medal (Australia) - Op SLIPPER
badge
Two ravens sit on Odin’s shoulders after flying around the world each morning and whisper all the news which they see and hear into his ear; they are called Huginn and Muninn.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I do see where you are going with this and it's to be admired in theory but applied realistically.

No, I don't have my finger on the US political pulse being a non-American living in France, but I understand MMP is a small self supporting company, as others have said, and not in a position to support political endeavours, directly or indirectly.

You could view the profits you deliver as supporting the veteran charity/ies MMP is involved with.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cdr Jameson
United Kingdom
Gloucester
Gloucestershire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
...pass the popcorn, this could get interesting.

p.s. As a Brit whose opinion doesn't matter; I regard voting with your wallet as only inconveniencing yourself. Unless a majority of the customer base follows your principles it does nothing more than inflate your own ego.

However I completely empathise with your regard for Trump and his (lack of) policies. Good luck with that, we've got our own problems going on over here!
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
flag msg tools
Nothing happens for a reason, but everything happens by a mechanism
badge
Nitrogen Conservation Awareness: I pee in the yard
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I personally think that in our current system that voting with your dolllars is basic good citizenship.

However, the litmus test I'd use is something like "If I buy this product am I supporting exploitation/environmental degradation etc?" In this specific case I'd find that hard to believe.

Not buying something that is not directly guilty of offenses, but rather because of the political beliefs of tangential third parties seems like a way to drive yourself crazy, IMHO.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wu Wei
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
In the past, it was possible to disagree with someone politically, and still make business with them. Sure, they were wrong about some ideas, but they were still decent, human beings.

Those times are gone.

Politics isn't about "right or wrong" any more, it's about "good or evil". And while you can make business with someone who has some wrong ideas, you - morally! - can't make business with someone who is EVIL.

Personally, I find this trend disturbing.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Murray
United Kingdom
Driffield
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Paul, I understand your stance - it is one that I have struggled with my whole life. I have strong and passionate political views and these are often at odds with artists and individuals I often admire. I too am troubled by with the current Republican ticket but as I understand it MMP have no affiliation with any political organisation and therefore I have no issue with purchasing from them.

I wonder if the political makeup of most ASL players are different in the UK than the US. I am a life-long socialist and have found most of my opponents share, are at least sympathetic, to those views. Although I tend to avoid much political conversation as the pool of potential ASL players are pretty small and I try not to alienate a potential opponent.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
House of Cards
United States
Abingdon
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
You either need to do what you feel or not. If you feel the need to ask random people on the internet how you should react - then well, to put it bluntly, your personal bias cannot be that particularly strong to start with.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cdr Jameson
United Kingdom
Gloucester
Gloucestershire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would never have guessed you're a socialist David...laugh, nice nick by the way.

In my experience (3 years living in the Mid West), most British view points, even the right wing ones would be regarded as Socialist. For many of my openly-Republican friends (ha as if that's something to be ashamed of) Socialism was a bad word and their opinion was nothing good could that would come from socialist policies.

As I'm sure most right minded foreigners are, I'm keenly interested (but getting a little bored with its length) in the Presidential race. I would be torn having to vote for either of the candidates.

Purchase on, as others have said MMP aren't politically active and I'm sure aren't in the habit of supporting the GOP.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Franklin-Bihary
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WuWei wrote:
In the past, it was possible to disagree with someone politically, and still make business with them. Sure, they were wrong about some ideas, but they were still decent, human beings.

Those times are gone.

Politics isn't about "right or wrong" any more, it's about "good or evil". And while you can make business with someone who has some wrong ideas, you - morally! - can't make business with someone who is EVIL.

Personally, I find this trend disturbing.


Me too. The trend of entrenchment in politics is disturbing to me as well. In fact, that's one of the reasons I like games so much. They aid in our ability to reach across difference and be human together.

I don't think Curt is "evil", but I do think Trump encourages and promotes many ideas that are.

Also, this thread is a conversation starter. I probably should have made that more clear. I'm not asking for advice as much as curious what we all think.

My position about "voting with my wallet" is loose. I do it when I can, but I also know that in our world economy it is practically impossible to have my money not get into hands that are at odds to my personal positions..

What is RSP, Chris?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bob Long
United States
Woodbridge
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, MMP, gaming and politics. Hmm? I really cannot comment on the political science question. To purchase or not to purchase. But in all, MMP is a publishing company and I am sure that their net worth is not going to be able to purchase a plate at the Trump fund raising banquet.

Now Mr. Schilling regardless of his political persuasion and part ownership of MMP perhaps should not have a bearing in the political boycott of MMP.

Yes, there are questions of should I continue to purchase or not from MMP but in all reality game purchasing is a luxury. It is a very expensive hobby. So, folks have to do what's in their heart as far as game purchasing goes.

just my 2 cents worth
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Perry Cocke
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Curt is a one-third owner of MMP, but otherwise not involved.

Curt represents Curt, not MMP.

Some in MMP are in direct opposition to most of Curt’s politics.

As for putting your philosophy into action, personally I am not going to not watch Gallipoli just because Mel Gibson is in it. YMMV
52 
 Thumb up
5.56
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron A
United States
Coronado
California
flag msg tools
badge
Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet-Gen. Mattis
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
paulus22 wrote:


What is RSP, Chris?


Religion, Sex, Politics forums
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Weber
Germany
Wendeburg
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
paulus22 wrote:


What is RSP, Chris?


Religion, Sex, Politics

An unmoderated forum here on BGG

got :ninja:-ed
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
chris gammon
United States
Elk Grove
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As a Libertarian, I say do what you want. Surely you've encountered someone who berated you for playing wargames at all. They probably even thought you were a Nazi of some kind. Hopefully you gave them a good explanation and left it at that and continued enjoying ASL.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Weber
Germany
Wendeburg
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TrotskyTrotsky wrote:


I wonder if the political makeup of most ASL players are different in the UK than the US. I am a life-long socialist and have found most of my opponents share, are at least sympathetic, to those views. Although I tend to avoid much political conversation as the pool of potential ASL players are pretty small and I try not to alienate a potential opponent.


In Germany the wargaming scene also consists of mostly politicslly left oriented people.

I always considered the US wargaming scene rather in the Republican camp, due to the proximity to arms (and the freedom the bear firearms) I may be completely mistaken here, it is just an impression I got ages ago from wargaming forums. I wonder whether or not this is really true.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Hobden
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
perrycocke wrote:
Curt is a one-third owner of MMP, but otherwise not involved.

Curt represents Curt, not MMP.

Some in MMP are in direct opposition to most of Curt’s politics.

As for putting your philosophy into action, personally I am not going to not watch Gallipoli just because Mel Gibson is in it. YMMV


thumbsup

BTW, Trump = garbage, IMHO.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T. Dauphin
Canada
Belleville
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar

paulus22 wrote:


What is RSP, Chris?


Religion, Sex, Politics, a forum akin to a mosh pit.

edit: ninja

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean
France
Paris
2ème
flag msg tools
Afghanistan Medal (Australia) - Op SLIPPER
badge
Two ravens sit on Odin’s shoulders after flying around the world each morning and whisper all the news which they see and hear into his ear; they are called Huginn and Muninn.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
perrycocke wrote:
As for putting your philosophy into action, personally I am not going to not watch Gallipoli just because Mel Gibson is in it. YMMV


Great Aussie film by the way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R. Beef
United States
Honolulu
Hawaii
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been on the fence too - about not purchasing any board game in the future that's printed on paper - this destroys our trees and leads to global warming and I am against global warming.

When does it end?!

It is a game meant to be enjoyed - supporting camaraderie among friends and rivals with different views.

On the collective whole, ASL should be measured by its community not one or two people - you are supporting the community when playing.

Purchasing continues to support the community to ensure gaming lives on!

Now let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya!

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dane P
United States
South Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this moral question was rendered moot when we all decided to make the most horrific conflict in all human history into a game. We take the sides of Nazis, butcherous captains of the Soviets and Americans, and we take pleasure from recreating the moments where husband's and sons died like dogs in rainy ditches where no one cared about them, as they suffered in fear and misery prior to their deaths.

Does that help your moral compass? Don't make a crusade for yourself that serves no great moral purpose.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Riley
United Kingdom
Bridport
Dorset
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My advice would be to keep your gaming and politics separate. Most people in politics act out of short term self interest and opportunity and in doing so sometimes accidentally go down a route they never originally intended to. You mustn't take them too seriously. In the UK, we have had the EU referendum which managed to divide the country about equally - but the "sides" don't bare close examination in terms of a consistent political philosophy. For example, people of a leftish tendency voted to remain in the EU on account of their "inclusive" political instinct and their automatic hostility to any curbs on immigration. In doing so they have (a) taken the side of a faceless politically unaccountable corporatist organisation like the EU which by its nature will continue to ride roughshod over not only minority views but minority countries and cultures in order to achieve its goals and (b) voted with the rich and against the clear wishes of the poorer sections of UK population . Really socialist, yeah?!

Anyway, what I am saying is, don't allow the duplicitous and short term world of politics to influence your gaming choices. The politicos will be playing their games long after your games are ash.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zartan Madinski
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I find topics like this fascinating It's so rare that anybody makes a moral stand regarding the games they play.

Often I get very conflicted about playing wargames at all. When I read accounts of WWII it can be emotionally devastating to see the sheer brutality, carnage and waste of life.

It makes me feel bad to play a game based on war. When I was a kid historical accounts of war focused no the victories and the glory. But modern history tends to get down in the trenches and reveal the misery and suffering of the average soldier.

I'm currently reading a boot about Stalingrad. Really horrible stuff. Millions suffered and died. Then I turn around and play a fun little game of Red Barricades? It makes me feel like I'd be better off giving it up and doing something more life enhancing.

And yes, I've heard all the arguments about how "it's only cardboard". But it still recreates and re-lives and puts a friendly gloss on something that is nasty and brutal.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.