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Subject: How to acquire non starting spells and how to equip kickstarter heroes? rss

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Julian Dick
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Hi!
During scenario setup, you give the characters starting items and spells as written in the rulebook. How do you equip heroes that are not among the base game heroes? Do you have free choice, or a number pool to spend?

How to you acquire non starting spells?
Are you able to get more during a scenario or only during setup?

greetings, Enroth

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anthony dybacz
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There are no rules for including them; its a case of 'suck it and see'...
 
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Stephan Beal
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Enroth186 wrote:
During scenario setup, you give the characters starting items and spells as written in the rulebook. How do you equip heroes that are not among the base game heroes? Do you have free choice, or a number pool to spend?


No and no. If you choose to use anything not specified in the scenario setup then "you're on your own." There are no official rules for making any modifications to scenarios beyond what is specified in each scenario.

Enroth186 wrote:
How to you acquire non starting spells?
Are you able to get more during a scenario or only during setup?


You don't acquire new spells unless a scenario specifically says so (or you house-rule it in some way).

Balancing scenarios in Conan requires a remarkable amount of effort and playtesting, and any custom changes you make to them have a good chance of unbalancing them. For example, in the Hunting the Tigress scenario, if you start Conan with his battleaxe instead of a sword, he has a much easier time wiping out pirates. This is a very small change, but with a large effect.
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Julian Dick
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Quote:
and any custom changes you make to them have a good chance of unbalancing them


But what do I do with the extra kickstarter items and spells? are they useless? really strange...
 
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The War Chief
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Enroth186 wrote:
Quote:
and any custom changes you make to them have a good chance of unbalancing them


But what do I do with the extra kickstarter items and spells? are they useless? really strange...


Perhaps they will be used in the Scenario Book being released in wave 2.
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Stephan Beal
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Enroth186 wrote:
But what do I do with the extra kickstarter items and spells? are they useless?


Monolith can't rightfully reference KS-only parts in the core game, because those who buy it in retail won't have those parts. They are "useless" in the sense that they are not referenced by any current official Monolith material. We can only hope that they will be referenced in the "wave 2" materials and/or future scenarios. Until then, feel free to hack them into scenarios as you see fit.
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Hugo Santos
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As a simple houserule, you can just equip the substitute hero with the same equipment as previous one would start with, or, a similar one (with same stats).
The equipment stats on this game are rather simple to compare and I belive it wold be easy to replace.
 
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Sam Sanchez
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This game is relying on the players creating thier own campaign to use the minatures and tiles created by monolith.

I can only hope someone takes the modiphius campaign and tiles and expands it to include a long story arc sort of like mice and Mystics where you can chain 15 stories together and utilize most of the minatures in the Kingpledge and stretch goals and add ons.

We already have two major campaign story arcs in the works. One coming in WAve 2 from monolith utilizing everything except the add ons. And another one from modiphius using the same stuff and a bunch of modiphius tiles. However neither of the above two campaigns contain any of the addons or especially exclusive addons.

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Stephan Beal
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Hugosan wrote:
As a simple houserule, you can just equip the substitute hero with the same equipment as previous one would start with, or, a similar one (with same stats).
The equipment stats on this game are rather simple to compare and I belive it wold be easy to replace.


Here's an exercise for you: in the Hunting the Tigress scenario, replace Conan's starting sword with a battleaxe. This change seems trivial. It is not.
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Philip Othman
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sgbeal wrote:
scenario, replace Conan's starting sword with a battleaxe. This change seems trivial. It is not.


To be fair, I think he is suggesting replacing a sword with another one handed weapon etc.

I have to be honest, I do find it a bit odd that a lot of people are so terrified of changing up scenario elements. It was always displayed as a game that would have much of its variety come from the player's initiative mixing and matching the pieces we received via the Kickstarter. They even did this in their showcase of the Pict village scenario. This insistence on sticking to the balance as if everything implodes if you take a weapon with an orange dice and no reroll over a yellow dice with a reroll is a bit silly. They even list them as "suggested" heroes, fundamentally encouraging you to mix it up.

The lack of generic loadouts and points cost/power level guides is the bit that is very annoying and makes it harder, but just looking at the weapon card stats and hero skills isn't that difficult.
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Stephan Beal
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Circinae wrote:
I have to be honest, I do find it a bit odd that a lot of people are so terrified of changing up scenario elements. It was always displayed as a game that would have much of its variety come from the player's initiative mixing and matching the pieces we received via the Kickstarter. They even did this in their showcase of the Pict village scenario. This insistence on sticking to the balance as if everything implodes if you take a weapon with an orange dice and no reroll over a yellow dice with a reroll is a bit silly. They even list them as "suggested" heroes, fundamentally encouraging you to mix it up.

The lack of generic loadouts and points cost/power level guides is the bit
that is very annoying and makes it harder, but just looking at the weapon card stats and hero skills isn't that difficult.


i don't disagree with any of that. However, after attempting to create my own scenario, as well as tweaking existing ones, i quickly realized that the flexibility of the system (the sheer number of options) seems to outright defy a point-based calculation like we're used to seeing in our "war games" (and that is what Conan is).

e.g. whether a character with 10 Stamina is notably better than one with 9 depends largely on which skills the character has (some skills require gem expenditure, some do not), what their "max" value is in their various attributes, how those attributes match up to their skills (e.g. a Manipulation-based skill will favor someone who has a high Manipulation value and/or red Manipulation dice).

e.g. we can't simply say "Lockpicking skill is worth X points" because its exact worth depends on whether the character has a yellow, orange, or red Manipulation die and (to a lesser degree) that character's Max Manipulation. Leadership favors someone who has more gems to spend. Fascination favors a character who does not attack (presumably because he has weak combat stats). Wall Wrecker favors someone with more free movement points.

i.e. the "real" value of skills depends on the character who has those skills and whether or not those skills play any role whatsoever in a scenario (e.g. Spellcaster is useless if the scenario does not assign spells to the character, as in Zogar Sag in the first Picts scenario).

My point is only that it's surprisingly difficult balance a Conan scenario "properly", and easy to unbalance one (where "unbalance" means "make it notably simpler for one team to win").
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Marco
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I found a reference on Monolith website where they promise they'll be posting guidelines to which equipment/spells a hero should start with. Great! It just takes a little patience, but i think they're working on it. As for me, i've tried some experiments switching Conan for other heroes in The Wrath of Anu scenario, but it always feels kind of unbalanced
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Oak Wolf
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Monolith certainly would be the best to achieve such system...assuming that there's still some in the team that keeps working on Conan once Mythic battles Pantheon kickstarts (grumble).

The issue is that switching characters in already scripted scenarios can break the balance so easily. I guess that is why Monolith didn't open that pandora's box already. Imagine the complaints about a character being overpowered in a scenario but underpowered in another. The process of balancing won't end. What they could provide is a list of characters that can reasonably be switched for each scenario. We can still make-do with what fan-made lists have provided and test for ourselves though, and in the end have a per-scenario list of character switches with the suggested starting equipment.

That being said, my main objective is to get more play time for the add-ons and stretch goals that we' unlocked. I am not sure how many times i'll be playing each scenario, but most of them will be played once or until heroes win. For its X-Wing game, FFG took notice of this issue and while it provides a scenario for most larger packs, it also provided a wonderfully efficient skirmish system. So efficient, indeed, that the skirmish system got more success than the scenario-based experience. Even though Conan is very thematic, it might be the right angle to aim for in order to get more table time for our add-ons.

Just ideas
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Andi Anonymous
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Sybaris wrote:
Monolith certainly would be the best to achieve such system...assuming that there's still some in the team that keeps working on Conan once Mythic battles Pantheon kickstarts.


But it wouldn't be a universal system because many scenarios are so dedicated to certain heros and their skills, eg. Belit and her guards or picking heavy locks to get the good stuff. I hope they will come up with hero "classes" instead of hero "overall strength".
 
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Oak Wolf
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Abbath wrote:
Sybaris wrote:
Monolith certainly would be the best to achieve such system...assuming that there's still some in the team that keeps working on Conan once Mythic battles Pantheon kickstarts.


But it wouldn't be a universal system because many scenarios are so dedicated to certain heros and their skills, eg. Belit and her guards or picking heavy locks to get the good stuff. I hope they will come up with hero "classes" instead of hero "overall strength".


I wasn't finished editing my post devil
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Henrik Schmidt
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Isn't the wave 2 Art/Campaignbook ment to make use of the kings pledge stuff ?

It seems the game has some problems in regard of replayability and customization. If monolith isn't stepping in to fill the black holes I guess conan will be short lived.
 
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Sam Sanchez
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sgbeal wrote:
Enroth186 wrote:
But what do I do with the extra kickstarter items and spells? are they useless?


Monolith can't rightfully reference KS-only parts in the core game, because those who buy it in retail won't have those parts. They are "useless" in the sense that they are not referenced by any current official Monolith material. We can only hope that they will be referenced in the "wave 2" materials and/or future scenarios. Until then, feel free to hack them into scenarios as you see fit.
this isn't true. Monolith did reference Valeria and the tentacles in the base scenarios and they are stretch goals and not at retail.
 
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Andi Anonymous
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They added all KS tiles and tokens to the retail version.
Everybody is able to play each scenario at least with proxies.
 
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Mark Taraba
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sgbeal wrote:
Circinae wrote:
I have to be honest, I do find it a bit odd that a lot of people are so terrified of changing up scenario elements. It was always displayed as a game that would have much of its variety come from the player's initiative mixing and matching the pieces we received via the Kickstarter. They even did this in their showcase of the Pict village scenario. This insistence on sticking to the balance as if everything implodes if you take a weapon with an orange dice and no reroll over a yellow dice with a reroll is a bit silly. They even list them as "suggested" heroes, fundamentally encouraging you to mix it up.

The lack of generic loadouts and points cost/power level guides is the bit
that is very annoying and makes it harder, but just looking at the weapon card stats and hero skills isn't that difficult.


i don't disagree with any of that. However, after attempting to create my own scenario, as well as tweaking existing ones, i quickly realized that the flexibility of the system (the sheer number of options) seems to outright defy a point-based calculation like we're used to seeing in our "war games" (and that is what Conan is).

e.g. whether a character with 10 Stamina is notably better than one with 9 depends largely on which skills the character has (some skills require gem expenditure, some do not), what their "max" value is in their various attributes, how those attributes match up to their skills (e.g. a Manipulation-based skill will favor someone who has a high Manipulation value and/or red Manipulation dice).

e.g. we can't simply say "Lockpicking skill is worth X points" because its exact worth depends on whether the character has a yellow, orange, or red Manipulation die and (to a lesser degree) that character's Max Manipulation. Leadership favors someone who has more gems to spend. Fascination favors a character who does not attack (presumably because he has weak combat stats). Wall Wrecker favors someone with more free movement points.

i.e. the "real" value of skills depends on the character who has those skills and whether or not those skills play any role whatsoever in a scenario (e.g. Spellcaster is useless if the scenario does not assign spells to the character, as in Zogar Sag in the first Picts scenario).

My point is only that it's surprisingly difficult balance a Conan scenario "properly", and easy to unbalance one (where "unbalance" means "make it notably simpler for one team to win").

Well to be fair, systems with point based units defy point based calculations too for some for the reasons you list. Elves with a bonus in wood terrain cost 10 points but if there is no wood terrain that cost is too high and if there's too much wood terrain that cost is too low. So you'd need to balance it by hand anyway or the system need a extremely complicated point calculation system.
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