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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: To Deckbuild or Not to Deckbuild rss

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Richard A. Edwards
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There have been discussions about how some people are looking forward to this game because it's a "light" deckbuilder that they can just focus on playing rather than building and rebuilding decks. Others have said it's an LCG and each scenario can be played standalone, so of course they'll focus on building and rebuilding decks and make some great ones. Maybe other people want a little of both? Maybe you don't care?

I thought it might be interesting to see how people are stacking up in terms of deckbuilders vs non-deckbuilders. This is my first BGG Poll so please forgive me for any lame entries. It's not easy to try and categorize something on a scale of preference in just a few choices.

Poll
I'm looking forward to the Arkham Horror the Card Game because...
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
I like deck building and it's an LCG. I plan on playing some of the scenarios as standalones so I can build better decks.
11.9% 35
I don't like deck building but I want to play an RPG-like campaign. I will probably use a deck list to start and play the scenarios as a campaign.
27.5% 81
I'm in the middle and will do some deck building myself but mostly will play the scenarios as a campaign.
57.6% 170
None of these!
3.1% 9
Voters 295
This poll is now closed.   295 answers
Poll created by SirRoke
Closes: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:00 am
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Brian C
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Anal sticking point #1: this game isn't a deckbuilder, it's a deck constructer.

Carry on.
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Tim Moore
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Exo Desta wrote:
Anal sticking point #1: this game isn't a deckbuilder, it's a deck constructer.

Carry on.


THANK YOU!
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Robbie M.
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Exo Desta wrote:
Anal sticking point #1: this game isn't a deckbuilder, it's a deck constructer.

Carry on.

Long before you ever heard of Dominion, the most popular deck building game was, and still is, Magic the Gathering.

Back on topic, I will most certainly be deck building. Not much at first of course, even with two cores you are just doubling up on a few cards, like a Daisy Tome deck. Once we get some additional cards however, give me 49xp and 4 more basic weaknesses.
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Richard A. Edwards
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Exo Desta wrote:
Anal sticking point #1: this game isn't a deckbuilder, it's a deck constructer.

Carry on.

While I understand your use of the terminology, ie a game that you construct a deck prior to playing as opposed to a game during the playing of which you build a deck, I used the correct terminology for this game, as the rules state.

Rule Reference, page 8: "DECKBUILDING".

If that's what FFG calls it, then I use their terminology.

I don't mean to start a flame war, it's not pertinent to this poll, but I wanted to both acknowledge your point and explain why I used the terminology the way I did.
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Pauli Vinni
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Option 4. Other

I am heavy deckbuilder, but I will play this game as constant one big story, so I will put a lot of efford in deckbuilding before the first scenario. After that I follow normal (change only cards based on XP you get) way.

This is a story based character development game so I plan to keep it that way. This is like pathfinder, but in pathfinder you character and the deck will improve Little by Little. In Archam Horror Lcg, your character get worse and worse all the time, (he becomes mad, or injured or cursed or...) and "improve" his deck Little by Little.



I Expect horrible dead Sooner than later goo

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Pat Correia
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SirRoke wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
Anal sticking point #1: this game isn't a deckbuilder, it's a deck constructer.

Carry on.

While I understand your use of the terminology, ie a game that you construct a deck prior to playing as opposed to a game during the playing of which you build a deck, I used the correct terminology for this game, as the rules state.

Rule Reference, page 8: "DECKBUILDING".

If that's what FFG calls it, then I use their terminology.

I don't mean to start a flame war, it's not pertinent to this poll, but I wanted to both acknowledge your point and explain why I used the terminology the way I did.


But that is not what FFG calls it. It's called a Living Card Game. Which, aside from the benefits of owning the trademark to your game's genre, is little more than a CCG with a different distribution model.

There's a critical difference between a CCG and a Deck Builder. in a CCG your deck is constructed ahead of time and you bring it to the game fully formed. In a Deck Builder you construct your deck as game play, usually the central or only mechanism to the game is the building of your deck.

No one ever called Magic a 'deck builder', it was always TCG (Trading Card Game)/CCG (Collectable Card Game). The term and genre Deck Builder wasn't popularized until Dominion.
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Brian Busha
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SOMEBODY IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET

But really, he's talking about deck building as used in Magic. No harm, no foul. Context is fine here.

To the topic, I think the very first game I'll use the suggested decks just to get a solid grip on the system, but really look forward to tweaking as time goes by. I loved that part of Magic and I like the campaign structure that allows a little, but not too much, modification.
 
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Brian C
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Gutrix wrote:
But really, he's talking about deck building as used in Magic. No harm, no foul. Context is fine here.

That's still the exact same situation we've been talking about..

The real issue is that we should all the speak the same language, just so that in the future we can understand eachother.

Also, shame on FFG for using this faulty term in their rulebook. Shame. (And if I may, I absolve Roke of any such shame as he wasn't the genesis here).

Looking forward to playing their awesome game though.
 
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Bradford Lounsberry
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Citizen Badger wrote:
SirRoke wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
Anal sticking point #1: this game isn't a deckbuilder, it's a deck constructer.

Carry on.

While I understand your use of the terminology, ie a game that you construct a deck prior to playing as opposed to a game during the playing of which you build a deck, I used the correct terminology for this game, as the rules state.

Rule Reference, page 8: "DECKBUILDING".

If that's what FFG calls it, then I use their terminology.

I don't mean to start a flame war, it's not pertinent to this poll, but I wanted to both acknowledge your point and explain why I used the terminology the way I did.


But that is not what FFG calls it. It's called a Living Card Game. Which, aside from the benefits of owning the trademark to your game's genre, is little more than a CCG with a different distribution model.

There's a critical difference between a CCG and a Deck Builder. in a CCG your deck is constructed ahead of time and you bring it to the game fully formed. In a Deck Builder you construct your deck as game play, usually the central or only mechanism to the game is the building of your deck.

No one ever called Magic a 'deck builder', it was always TCG (Trading Card Game)/CCG (Collectable Card Game). The term and genre Deck Builder wasn't popularized until Dominion.


He was referring to the rulebook. It is called Deckbuilding in the rulebook that FFG provided. So send a letter to FFG or soemthing. Everyone knows the difference between deck builders and deck construction games. No need to explain it again and again. Most of us don't care about the semantics.
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Rob s
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"It's not building, it's constructing!"

Ha. It reminds me of the Dr. Strangelove quote: "You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!".
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Pat Correia
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ralsar wrote:
He was referring to the rulebook. It is called Deckbuilding in the rulebook that FFG provided. So send a letter to FFG or soemthing. Everyone knows the difference between deck builders and deck construction games. No need to explain it again and again. Most of us don't care about the semantics.


The thing is, everyone doesn't know the difference. I've seen a lot of people get confused as to the distinction between the two. Using the wrong term for the genre as if they were interchangeable by people who do know the difference adds to that confusion.

Also, FFG were not referring to the type or genre of the game in the rule book. It was deck building, the act of putting your deck together before play and the rules you must follow to do so. Not Deck Building, the genre of game. The term was used correctly in the rule book, but is not here.
 
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Jacek Deimer
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Is it really bad thing that a word can have several meanings?
Well it happens all the time in our everyday life.

Deckbuilding - a process of building a deck, in some games it happens before actual game in others during. In some it is core mechanic of the game in others just one of many. Different games have different rules and mechanics for deckbuilding.

I played Magic and other CCG for over 10 years and can't remember anyone using term DECK CONSTRUCTING. It is an artificial and for sure unpopular term developed recently.

I don't want to argue about terminology, but DECKBUILDING is a term which has been used for over 20 years by CCG community and quite recently has been adopted by other card games with slightly changed meaning.
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Bradford Lounsberry
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Agreed. It was always deck building during my years of magic as well.

"Want to play Magic?" "Hold on I need to build a deck."

No one ever said "Hold on I need to construct a deck."

This is certainly one of the weirdest arguments around that keeps popping up. Pointless and silly, but there is always someone who treats it like its a serious issue. It doesn't matter and it will never matter.
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Pat Correia
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ralsar wrote:
Agreed. It was always deck building during my years of magic as well.

"Want to play Magic?" "Hold on I need to build a deck."

No one ever said "Hold on I need to construct a deck."

This is certainly one of the weirdest arguments around that keeps popping up. Pointless and silly, but there is always someone who treats it like its a serious issue. It doesn't matter and it will never matter.


If you don't think language matters at all then why did you write your post with proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar? Could it be that you had an idea or opinion and you wanted to express yourself and in such a way that others would be able to understand what you wanted to express to them with clarity?
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Brian C
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ralsar wrote:
Agreed. It was always deck building during my years of magic as well.

"Want to play Magic?" "Hold on I need to build a deck."

No one ever said "Hold on I need to construct a deck."

This is certainly one of the weirdest arguments around that keeps popping up. Pointless and silly, but there is always someone who treats it like its a serious issue. It doesn't matter and it will never matter.

As an opposing perspective, I played MtG also, and while yes it was called "building a deck" back then, anytime I hear the terms "deckbuilder" or "deckbuilding" it conjures a very specific image in my mind.

Nothing to do with constructing a deck ala MtG; everything to do with deckbuilding in game.

There's a gulf, an ocean of difference between the two. Terminology does matter, and will always matter.
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Bradford Lounsberry
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Citizen Badger wrote:
ralsar wrote:
Agreed. It was always deck building during my years of magic as well.

"Want to play Magic?" "Hold on I need to build a deck."

No one ever said "Hold on I need to construct a deck."

This is certainly one of the weirdest arguments around that keeps popping up. Pointless and silly, but there is always someone who treats it like its a serious issue. It doesn't matter and it will never matter.


If you don't think language matters at all then why did you write your post with proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar? Could it be that you had an idea or opinion and you wanted to express yourself and in such a way that others would be able to understand what you wanted to express to them with clarity?


I never said I "don't think language matters at all" you silly, silly person. Good luck on your crusade.
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David Boeren
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While I hate that people get these two completely unrelated genres confused, I'm not sure that derailing this thread will help.

Since games where you design a deck before playing existed first, I feel the onus should have been on Dominion to come up with a clearly differentiated name for their innovative new mechanic. Unfortunately they did not. It sucks, but it's a world we now have to live in because it can't be changed now. Let's move on. (Note, the same thing happened in another one of my old hobbies where shoot-em-up video games which existed since the beginning of time had their name preempted when light gun games came out. They had to migrate to "shmup" which works for fans, but nobody in the mainstream has any idea what you're talking about so it's not really a satisfying solution.)

I do like designing decks, but I'm not sure that this is tightly coupled with running standalone scenarios. What if you intend to design a deck and then play a whole campaign with it? I could vote "Other" but that doesn't give useful information to anyone looking at the poll results and I feel like the OP probably meant for someone like me to vote the first option.

There's another in-between option too. I could see using the first scenario of a campaign as a testbed for a deck so that you may make a deck, run the first scenario, make some tweaks, rerun, etc... and then once you feel you have your deck ironed out THEN go ahead and do the whole campaign with it.

The balance will likely shift over time too as greater deck building options accumulate with new player cards. Our experience as players will grow too. Right now we're all new and unsure of our judgement of how to design a good deck. That means more mistakes and more changes to fix them. Later on we'll have more skill and confidence and feel like we can put together a first cut of a new deck and have it be fairly solid already.
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Bradford Lounsberry
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dboeren wrote:
There's another in-between option too. I could see using the first scenario of a campaign as a testbed for a deck so that you may make a deck, run the first scenario, make some tweaks, rerun, etc... and then once you feel you have your deck ironed out THEN go ahead and do the whole campaign with it.


This is what I have been doing a lot of lately. Like you said, building a deck for this game is new to us. My experiences with games like Magic and LOTR certainly help, but it is a different enough game. Experimentation is integral to building a deck.
 
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David Boeren
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Agreed. I also wanted to mention it because there are a lot of people who have never designed a deck for any game before and they may not realize what the general process looks like. i.e. - you don't just make your card decisions and then you're done. That's just the first rough draft of the deck. After that comes the test and tune phase where you evaluate the deck's performance and try to make improvements. This can be accomplished by various methods. You can play real scenarios of course, but you could also construct your own mini-testbed situations to pit your deck against. We are VERY VERY new to this game, but just to demonstrate what I'm talking about you may do something like say "by turn 2 I need to be able to achieve Intellect 5 twice and/or take out a Fight 4 opponent with two health". Then you do a test and see how often your deck meets its stated early game performance goal and this helps you gauge how consistent your design is and whether you need to make card adjustments to reach your design goals.
 
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theres not much deckbuilding in the coreset imo. Most of the card choices are no brainer. Well at least, for me.
 
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Bradford Lounsberry
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nightwishpower wrote:
theres not much deckbuilding in the coreset imo. Most of the card choices are no brainer. Well at least, for me.


Yeah with 1 core set there is next to none, with 2 core sets the deckbuilding is little more interesting. Still pretty simple though. Can't wait until the card pool starts growing.
 
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