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Terraforming Mars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Must add animals to opponents card? rss

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Lorry Moller
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There are a couple of cards that add animals to 'Another card'. If you have no animal cards, are you forced to add to an opponent's animal card?

The rules make an exception for red bordered 'removes' to say that they are are optional. Some folks in my group took that to mean that since there is no exception for adds, that adds are not optional (and that it was thematic that the animals had to go somewhere).

My preference is a link to a clarification from the designer or a link to the rules, if anyone can find one. Thx.
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pacemaker 67
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https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23955804#23955804

has a link to the rules.

It depends on how you interpret "you" in "...adds resources that you can’t collect..."

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Lorry Moller
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That link indicates that you can play the card, but doesn't clarify if you must add the animals to the opponent's card.
 
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Bruce Gazdecki
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Lindsey
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This is directly from the rule book (bold is mine):

1) Check the requirements.
In order to play a card you must meet its requirements
and be able to perform the effects stated on the card,
with the following exceptions: You may play a card that...
- raises global parameters that have already reached
their goal (for example when there are no more ocean tiles, or
when the temperature is at +8 °C).
- adds resources that you can’t collect (for example
adding microbe resources without having any microbe
project to place them on).

-removes resources for any player (red-bordered
resource icons, see example on card C below) if you can’t or
do not wish to.
Even if these effects can’t be performed, you may still play the
card, performing all other effects as usual.

The first "you" bolded indicates that you are the player. The "you" in the second bolded statment must also then refer to "you" as in the first one. As I read it, you can play the card even if you can't take the microbes (or whatever) and there's as there's nothing in the rules that says you have to give them to anyone else in that instance, they simply aren't given to anybody.
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pacemaker 67
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Bruiser419 wrote:
.. and there's as there's nothing in the rules that says you have to give them to anyone else in that instance, they simply aren't given to anybody.


I believe that is the question at hand.
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Bruce Gazdecki
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pacemaker67 wrote:
Bruiser419 wrote:
.. and there's as there's nothing in the rules that says you have to give them to anyone else in that instance, they simply aren't given to anybody.


I believe that is the question at hand.


Possibly. But the rules seem pretty clear to me that you can play a card even if you can't add the resources to a card you own, so why would you give them to someone else?
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H-B-G
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pacemaker67 wrote:
Bruiser419 wrote:
.. and there's as there's nothing in the rules that says you have to give them to anyone else in that instance, they simply aren't given to anybody.


I believe that is the question at hand.


According to the rules icons with a red border can target another player, these icons have no red border so can only target the player who plays the card.
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Florian Ruckeisen
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Bruiser419 wrote:
As I read it, you can play the card even if you can't take the microbes (or whatever) and there's as there's nothing in the rules that says you have to give them to anyone else in that instance, they simply aren't given to anybody.

This is correct.

Moreover, thx to Bastinator pointing this out to me, I no longer believe you could give them to another player even if you wanted to, as the rules, p.9 under section 2, go on to say:
rulebook p.9 wrote:
Resources or production without red frames always affect yourself and must be performed.

So it's not allowed to gift your free microbes to another player (otherwise the icons would be red-bordered).

Of course, the other part of this rule ("resources [..] without red frames [..] must be performed") is superceded by the exception "you may play a card that... adds resources you can't collect" (otherwise, this exception would never come into effect and would be pointless). So it is allowed to just not take the microbes and play the card anyway.

Yeah, the rulebook could be structured a bit better here and there.
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Lorry Moller
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thx folks, that makes sense to me. I appreciate everyone taking the time to find the rules and quote first sources.
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Sebastian Stückl
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Snapshot wrote:
Bruiser419 wrote:
As I read it, you can play the card even if you can't take the microbes (or whatever) and there's as there's nothing in the rules that says you have to give them to anyone else in that instance, they simply aren't given to anybody.

This is correct.

Moreover, thx to Bastinator pointing this out to me, I no longer believe you could give them to another player even if you wanted to, as the rules, p.9 under section 2, go on to say:
rulebook p.9 wrote:
Resources or production without red frames always affect yourself and must be performed.

So it's not allowed to gift your free microbes to another player (otherwise the icons would be red-bordered).

Of course, the other part of this rule ("resources [..] without red frames [..] must be performed") is superceded by the exception "you may play a card that... adds resources you can't collect" (otherwise, this exception would never come into effect and would be pointless). So it is allowed to just not take the microbes and play the card anyway.

Yeah, the rulebook could be structured a bit better here and there.


Yes, there's an exception to the rule.
However, the rule still makes sense the way it is written, as it still refers to production, which must be performed, negative resources(huh?), and to resources that you can actually collect. Even though a card can be played if you can't collect any resources it produces, you must still do so if you can.
In the event that you produce microbes or animals, this can be detrimental if one of your opponents can steal them using the respective project, or if you know they have an event that lets them do this.

Sebastian (aka Bastinator )
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