Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
6 Posts

Sekigahara: The Unification of Japan» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mustering and overruns rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Daniel Gómez
Spain
Alcalá de Henares
Madrid
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I understand the rules about mustering, overrunning and mustering into combat, but there is a case that it is not clear to me yet. This is the case:

The enemy has one (or more) block in my recruitment location. Can I muster to that location with enough blocks to overrun the enemy block/s?

If overrunnings are considered combats, then the answer is no because of mustering into combat rules. But if overrunnings are not considered combats, then the answer is yes.

I think the second is right per 7.4.1 section. Also overruns are treated in a different section that combat. So I think overruns are not combats.

What do you think?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Albritton
United States
Tupelo
Mississippi
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Only if the blocks can be mustered into the area according to 7.2.

In other words, you can't muster into an area with only enemy blocks. You must have at least one block there prior to mustering.

If they can legally be mustered there, then an overrun is possible.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Tan
Malaysia
Cheras
Kuala Lumpur
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
7.4.1 Overruns in General
... Overruns can also be caused by retreating blocks (see battles), Mustering blocks, or bringing units from the Mori Box.

That section of the rulebook specifically answers your question.

Also to add, you can only muster in a recruitment location with enemy blocks, if your own blocks are there and the new mustered troops are used to support the battle in the subsequent phase. That battle is mandatory.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Gómez
Spain
Alcalá de Henares
Madrid
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kubigaruma wrote:
Only if the blocks can be mustered into the area according to 7.2.

In other words, you can't muster into an area with only enemy blocks. You must have at least one block there prior to mustering.

If they can legally be mustered there, then an overrun is possible.


Thanks for reply.

I don't find where in the rulebook it says that you can't muster into an area with only enemy blocks. It says an attack cannot come from the Recruitment Box, but it can be supported from there. But if an overrun is not an attack (i.e. a combat), then that sentence doesn't apply here.

jazontan wrote:
7.4.1 Overruns in General
... Overruns can also be caused by retreating blocks (see battles), Mustering blocks, or bringing units from the Mori Box.

That section of the rulebook specifically answers your question.

Also to add, you can only muster in a recruitment location with enemy blocks, if your own blocks are there and the new mustered troops are used to support the battle in the subsequent phase. That battle is mandatory.


Thanks for your reply.

Again, this is not truth if overruns are not considered combats or battles.

OK, let's put a detailed example.

Ishida player has a block in Kiyosu (mustering location for Fukushima blocks). Tokugawa player is not present in that location prior to his/her movement. It is Tokugawa's turn, who plays a card for limited movement.

A) Tokugawa player musters 1 to 3 blocks to Kiyosu and then he/she moves two stacks in any part of the map (even into Kiyosu). This would lead to a combat in Kiyosu.
This is not legal per 7.2 Mustering Into Combat paragraph.

B) Tokugawa player moves 1 to 3 blocks to Kiyosu and then he/she musters 1 to 3 blocks (assuming he/she has enough Fukushima blocks in his/her Recruitment Box) into Kiyosu. This will lead to a combat or to an overrun, depending of final Tokugawa blocks quantity.
This is legal.

C) Tokugawa player musters 4 or more Fukushima blocks into Kiyosu (without prior movement into that location from inside the map) and then he/she moves two any other non related stacks. The Ishida block would be overruned by Tokugawa blocks.
This is the kind of situation I have doubts about. Because I don't have clear whether or not an overrun is a combat.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Tan
Malaysia
Cheras
Kuala Lumpur
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah I see where your confusion is at.

In scenario C, Tokugawa cannot muster Fukushima blocks into Kiyosu as the location is entirely occupied by Ishida. Mustering directly into Kiyosu will result in Tokugawa "mustering into combat" so that is not legal (per scenario A)

If a Tokugawa block is moved into Kiyosu, then it is legal for the Fukushima troops to muster into Kiyosu as part of "supporting the combat". If at that moment the Tokugawa troops outnumber Ishida by 4 times, then the Ishida blocks are overrun.

Overruns are not movements and also not combat by itself. It is a byproduct when you do movement, retreat or mustering. You must still obey such restrictions to the 3 before an overrun can occur when you do a unit check.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Hathorn
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Can the active/attacking/offensive player move into a situation where they are overrun? I realize it's a rare case, retreating being the most likely scenario, but it could also be an option for a remote stack of 2 blocks that are dead anyway and the active player wants to draw a card on his turn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.