Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
45 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Railroad Revolution» Forums » General

Subject: Western Union to strong ? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Deniz K.
Germany
Spiesen Elversberg
flag msg tools
Is it possible that always that player wins who gets all points in the Western Union?
After a few games it seems so.
U easily get to 116 points with the 8 houses. Also you have a lot of stocks and with them lot of money and bonus actions.

Sure you need also points from other directions, but we have the feeling: if you want to win u need definitly the Western Union and all the Stocks.

Usually the winner had 260 to 316 (highscore)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christina Crouch
United Kingdom
Tadley
Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not in the game I played. Those Milestone contracts are hugely lucrative.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Yeung

Paradise Valley
Arizona
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No - building to the west coast nets you 75
Points, having people rush for western union negates the stock bonus, and the milestone cards are pretty good. Pretty balanced
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dániel Lányi
Hungary
Budapest
* -Not Applicable-
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DomerHoo wrote:
No - building to the west coast nets you 75
Points, having people rush for western union negates the stock bonus, and the milestone cards are pretty good. Pretty balanced


In both games I played the winner was the person with the most western union AND building to the west coast. You can easily do both. It seems like the game is about long enough for yout to have maximum multipliers for those two things, fill western union, build to the coast and have your A and B milestones completed.
I can kind of see how getting to, and completing D milestones might be good too, BUT the problem is those are not reliable. You can easily just draw ones you simply can't do before the game ends. You might argue that's not true or at least very rare but the thing is people who play heavy euros like to plan ahead, and with the milestones you can't really do it. So I'm pretty sure that at least in my group we will still tend to do the points we can see at the start of the game
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick L
msg tools
mbmbmb
I agree. We have played several times and Western Union seems very strong. You get stocks and are able to get deals. Has anyone won over someone that has maxed Western Union and rails?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frantisek Anderle
Czech Republic
Prague
NA
flag msg tools
Avatar
We faced the same issue today again.
I played today the Western Union + Level 5 cities and few Millstones and win without a problem.

The western union seems to be really OP because you score the points twice - once for the station and second time for the station connections.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pascal Cadot
Belgium
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
We have the same experience here.

Placing houses in Western Union is very strong. Yo udo not have to pay to place them and you receive the stocks that can help you to make a lot of different actions. You just need to rapidly go to the West coast through the center of the map (the fastest). You climb up to the max in the Western union house track and the West coast track, and you easily reach between 280 and 310 VPs.
Someone who chooses to place a lot of rails and stations on the map has no chance.
We feel the game unbalanced. After four plays, not sure we will play it again.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Dearlove
United Kingdom
Chelmsford
Essex
flag msg tools
SoRCon 8 27 Feb - 1 Mar 2015 Basildon UK http://www.sorcon.co.uk Essex Games 27 Jul '15
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Telegraph stations do appear strong, though we haven't played enough to be sure.

But our attention is on that the game allows planning - except for new milestones. It makes a significant difference whether your milestones synergise - and that's pure luck.

We have, without trying it, kicked around the idea of making replacement milestones draw two choose one. And that's from someone who generally doesn't like variants.

Any thoughts?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dániel Lányi
Hungary
Budapest
* -Not Applicable-
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dearlove wrote:
Telegraph stations do appear strong, though we haven't played enough to be sure.

But our attention is on that the game allows planning - except for new milestones. It makes a significant difference whether your milestones synergise - and that's pure luck.

We have, without trying it, kicked around the idea of making replacement milestones draw two choose one. And that's from someone who generally doesn't like variants.

Any thoughts?

Railroad Revolution rulebook wrote:

When taking a replacement Milestone, draw the 3 top tiles from the appropriate stack, choose one of them and place it face up next to your Player Board. Put the remaining tiles on the bottom of the appropriate stack.


It appears you played it incorrectly. I played with the correct rules and it's still not planable enough. It seems balanced in theory, but in practice you can still very easily draw three bad ones. Usually only two in the stack are good, that are basically the same one you already had, but with bigger number cities, and one more railroad of the same type you already went for.

I would go even further and house-rule it so that you can choose freely from all milestones not yet taken.
3 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Dearlove
United Kingdom
Chelmsford
Essex
flag msg tools
SoRCon 8 27 Feb - 1 Mar 2015 Basildon UK http://www.sorcon.co.uk Essex Games 27 Jul '15
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wallwaster wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
Telegraph stations do appear strong, though we haven't played enough to be sure.

But our attention is on that the game allows planning - except for new milestones. It makes a significant difference whether your milestones synergise - and that's pure luck.

We have, without trying it, kicked around the idea of making replacement milestones draw two choose one. And that's from someone who generally doesn't like variants.

Any thoughts?

Railroad Revolution rulebook wrote:

When taking a replacement Milestone, draw the 3 top tiles from the appropriate stack, choose one of them and place it face up next to your Player Board. Put the remaining tiles on the bottom of the appropriate stack.


It appears you played it incorrectly. I played with the correct rules and it's still not planable enough. It seems balanced in theory, but in practice you can still very easily draw three bad ones. Usually only two in the stack are good, that are basically the same one you already had, but with bigger number cities, and one more railroad of the same type you already went for.

I would go even further and house-rule it so that you can choose freely from all milestones not yet taken.


I very nearly checked just to make sure we had it right. But no, we wouldn't have got that wrong ...

It's not just about like the ones you already have. Sometimes you are close to something you don't have. Or you want a track tile rather than a station tile (or vice versa).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Breden
United States
Independence
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow. Reading this thread makes me realize two things. First, that people in my gaming group are nowhere near good enough at these kinds of games to max out on two tracks while also filling Western Union and laying rail to the West coast; and secondly, that I'm glad they aren't that narrowly focused and boring in their play ... So I haven't at all encountered the issue you are talking about. Drawing 3 milestone tiles seems to always uncover a good option -- one or 2 of the three will always be just about completed ... unless you aren't building stations in cities, or laying rail anywhere but to the coast, I guess ...

Here's an idea for you that will change up your group's meta -- you could make it a win condition to have at least one 'C' level company milestone completed. Seems thematic to me ... we're supposed to be running railroad companies, not just telegraph ones ...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dániel Lányi
Hungary
Budapest
* -Not Applicable-
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
a_flying_possum wrote:

Here's an idea for you that will change up your group's meta -- you could make it a win condition to have at least one 'C' level company milestone completed. Seems thematic to me ... we're supposed to be running railroad companies, not just telegraph ones ...


That would make the game even more scripted, just the other way. I'm sure that's not the solution for people feeling like WU is too strong.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Murphy
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Played my first game last night. Really enjoyed it, but was convincingly beaten by both other players who went heavily into Western Union and also maxed out on the tracks for WU and rails (or very close to).

They both achieved this in the last few turns, so they were tight for time, but I would say it looked perfectly achievable. I would play this way if I played again.

My strategy was to go as heavy as I could in station building and using orange workers to build them. I maxed out that track and also completed rails to all 5 valued cities, but did not advance very far on that track. I decided to mostly ignore WU, except for three placements to get some shares (for deals) and the bonuses on offer.

Scores were roughly 280, 240, 170. Very enjoyable, but would need to play more to see if it is fun to be in a game where we all have the same basic strategy.

All of the above based on one play, so read with a pinch of salt and all that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith B
United States
Katy
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wallwaster wrote:
DomerHoo wrote:
No - building to the west coast nets you 75
Points, having people rush for western union negates the stock bonus, and the milestone cards are pretty good. Pretty balanced


In both games I played the winner was the person with the most western union AND building to the west coast. You can easily do both. It seems like the game is about long enough for yout to have maximum multipliers for those two things, fill western union, build to the coast and have your A and B milestones completed.
I can kind of see how getting to, and completing D milestones might be good too, BUT the problem is those are not reliable. You can easily just draw ones you simply can't do before the game ends. You might argue that's not true or at least very rare but the thing is people who play heavy euros like to plan ahead, and with the milestones you can't really do it. So I'm pretty sure that at least in my group we will still tend to do the points we can see at the start of the game


Yep, this exactly happened in a game I played last night.

I focused on milestones and stations, and even completed 106 points vs his 50 or so on milestones, yet he destroyed the rest of us by completing the Western Telepgraph track and laying stations on each WT location, and completing the laying out rail to the three west coast cities as well as completing the corresponding track..

Telegraph seems too strong based on the availability of points and the fact it's free. Whereas, in all but one case (using orange worker), laying city stations costs money, and laying rails does as well. And, of course, completing milestones costs workers.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Koitka
France
Lille
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree. What about ignoring western union connection points, as an house rule? Western union houses are free, gives lots of things, and the scoring track is the easiest one to achieve. These 44 points are the first thing, and easiest one, I would change. I think Western Union would stay overpowered in this way, but a little less...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Big Ben
England
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I also agree. Played three times now and the Western Union is definitely too powerful, scoring both from the tracks and the adjacent placement is too much. Personally I believe you should choose the higher score of the two and that should be your final score for the Western Union, not both.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberto Bueno
Spain
Gijon
Asturias
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
just to point out that I have just won with just one station on the Western Union (and that was a mistake) versus a player with max there

Easiest but not overpowered
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith B
United States
Katy
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gixmo wrote:
just to point out that I have just won with just one station on the Western Union (and that was a mistake) versus a player with max there

Easiest but not overpowered


Can you provide us what your strategy was?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dániel Lányi
Hungary
Budapest
* -Not Applicable-
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
texascpa wrote:
gixmo wrote:
just to point out that I have just won with just one station on the Western Union (and that was a mistake) versus a player with max there

Easiest but not overpowered


Can you provide us what your strategy was?


Oh yes, details please! In my experience the winner had western union maxed out, built all the way to all three western coast cities, had western union and west coast multiplier track maxed out and had done both A and B milestones. If your opponent did that, and you won, then you win this thread sir
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith B
United States
Katy
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wallwaster wrote:
texascpa wrote:
gixmo wrote:
just to point out that I have just won with just one station on the Western Union (and that was a mistake) versus a player with max there

Easiest but not overpowered


Can you provide us what your strategy was?


Oh yes, details please! In my experience the winner had western union maxed out, built all the way to all three western coast cities, had western union and west coast multiplier track maxed out and had done both A and B milestones. If your opponent did that, and you won, then you win this thread sir


Exactly. I'm guessing the opponent did not push to the three western cities. It's the combination of the two that seems to be unbeatable.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberto Bueno
Spain
Gijon
Asturias
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sure, Milestones and stations on cities

Telegraph: 72 points from Performance + 40 (+/-) from Direct VP
Stations: 9 points per each (lets say 8 too) 72 plus good positioning for Milestones

Without doing a Max Out, I got 158 points from Milestones and 40 from Performance. Without max out, because I was also checking what other players were doing (some of them were first players), but one of them did the max with Telegraph

Telegraph seems the easier one, but I do not see it overpowered
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Koitka
France
Lille
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
40 from Performance, really? The winner always has around 280-290 points... including 44 from Telegraph, 72 from Telegraph performance, 75 from network performance and 40-60 points from minor milestones...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberto Bueno
Spain
Gijon
Asturias
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
yes, I was talking just about the points only from telegraph, not the total ones (the 3 games played so far have not gone below 250 points for the winner)
If you manage correctly your network, 40-60 from Milestones are too few
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Koitka
France
Lille
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
gixmo wrote:

If you manage correctly your network, 40-60 from Milestones are too few

it's easy to get more, but not when maximizing western Union and Network as I said. Which goes much faster than fulfilling Milestones.

250 is not a high score. And now I wonder how you score 40 from Western Union performance with a single station on Western Union...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberto Bueno
Spain
Gijon
Asturias
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I did not score points for Western Union, 40 was my Performance on stations and was not max out
On that game I had only 1 station on Western Union, and that was a mistake (one action lost)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.