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Subject: Hunting the Tigress overlord strat? rss

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anthony dybacz
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Greetings all,

I have now played 6 scenarios as the Overlord and, though I have lost a fair few, with repeated plays I think I can make it really hard on the heroes (games have all been fairly close and it seems like there is a slightly steeper learning curve for overlord).

All except the Hunting the Tigress scenario; this one I dont have much of a clue how to go about even making it close (played this one twice now).

It goes something like this: the heroes clear the Tigress deck of pirates on their boat in a turn (or 2) before Conan and Shevatas jump on board the Vandal (as they are expendable). While Belit, Hadrathus (with life giver) and the Guards all turtle up.
My strategy so far has been to try to whitle guards down with archers before sending the demon over and protecting Zaparavo from a rampaging Conan. To no avail; there is simply not enough OL actions or gems and Zaporavo goes down in a round or 2.

I dont think we are playing incorrectly (though, would any English speaker really know??) and I have the rules down fairly tight.

Any advice/strats/pointers from people who have won this as OL is apreciated.
 
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Stephan Beal
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CardboardAnt wrote:
Greetings all,

I have now played 6 scenarios as the Overlord and, though I have lost a fair few, with repeated plays I think I can make it really hard on the heroes (games have all been fairly close and it seems like there is a slightly steeper learning curve for overlord).

All except the Hunting the Tigress scenario; this one I dont have much of a clue how to go about even making it close (played this one twice now).

It goes something like this: the heroes clear the Tigress deck of pirates on their boat in a turn (or 2) before Conan and Shevatas jump on board the Vandal (as they are expendable). While Belit, Hadrathus (with life giver) and the Guards all turtle up.
My strategy so far has been to try to whitle guards down with archers before sending the demon over and protecting Zaparavo from a rampaging Conan. To no avail; there is simply not enough OL actions or gems and Zaporavo goes down in a round or 2.

I dont think we are playing incorrectly (though, would any English speaker really know??) and I have the rules down fairly tight.


That last detail is highly disconcerting, isn't it? In my experience, the core rules are fine, it's the skills and scenario-specific instructions which suck. (Exception: the LOS rules, as written, directly conflict with Monolith ruling (in other threads here on BGG) on LOS vs the Mast spaces.)


CardboardAnt wrote:
Any advice/strats/pointers from people who have won this as OL is apreciated.


When you say "turtle," do you mean that they stand in the Mast spaces to avoid being shot? If so, it has since been ruled that the mast spaces themselves are not immune to ranged fire: LOS is blocked only if the LOS line goes all the way through a mast.


Don't forget that Zaporov gives bonus re-rolls to all units in his space, so it may make sense to group him with the Archers and/or Pirates.

Caveat/Disclaimer: the first time i played this scenario, the Archers wiped the floor with the heroes. The 2nd/3rd times i "incorrectly" used the Mast spaces as defense against the Archers, forcing the Pirates to come at the heroes. i haven't re-played it since learning "the mast hack" was an illegal move, though.
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anthony dybacz
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No, I played the mast spaces as per Monolith ruling.

By 'turtle' I mean stand with all remaining guards (to soak a round or 2 of incoming fire) and then Hadrathus basically kills himself giving Belit all his gems (they all stand in a space together).
This is a delaying tactic while Shevatas and Conan destroy the archers/Zaporavo.

And even playing it with 3 heroes, Belit can simply stay on cautious stance and plow gems into guard + her guards sacrificing themselves while Conan and Shevatas destroy your archers and go for Zaparavo.


I am not claiming that the scenario is unbalanced (I never jump to those conclusions), I am just claiming that I personally cannot see how to progress in this scenario; I think it is always going to up the overlord's difficulty when it is him that has to achieve an assassination objective.

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Becq Starforged
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Isn't commanding her minions an action other than guard and reroll, and therefore something Belit can't do while set to cautious? (Note: haven't gotten my game yet, so I may have holes in my understanding.)
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Clanggedin Silverbeard
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Becq wrote:
Isn't commanding her minions an action other than guard and reroll, and therefore something Belit can't do while set to cautious? (Note: haven't gotten my game yet, so I may have holes in my understanding.)


That is my understanding too. Only guard and reroll in cautious stance is allowed. Commanding units is considered an action. If you play it that way you will have much better chance at winning as the OL.
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Craig K
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A few players on here argued that skill activation's aren't actions so can be done in cautous stance. I don't beleive that's correct but if Pallintides or Bad Kam are hiding somewhere maybe they can clarify.

It was mentioned though that leader heroes can spend gems to reroll, defend and move their minions like the overlord and that would be clarified in the new rules.
 
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Frank BLACKFIRE
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French rules stated that in cautious stance a hero can only make defense actions and re-rolls actions. So, in my opinion (but I'm no Monolith) you can't command while cautious.
Note if your commanded troops have the "sacrifice" skill, they still can die for you as it is a passive skill.
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Bad Kam
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Pallantides wrote:

French rules stated that in cautious stance a hero can only make defense actions and re-rolls actions. So, in my opinion (but I'm no Monolith) you can't command while cautious.
Note if your commanded troops have the "sacrifice" skill, they still can die for you as it is a passive skill.


I confirm that you can only Defend and Re-roll so not command your allies.
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Stephan Beal
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BadKam wrote:
Pallantides wrote:

French rules stated that in cautious stance a hero can only make defense actions and re-rolls actions. So, in my opinion (but I'm no Monolith) you can't command while cautious.
Note if your commanded troops have the "sacrifice" skill, they still can die for you as it is a passive skill.


I confirm that you can only Defend and Re-roll so not command your allies.


Can you confirm for us whether passive and purely reactive skills are affected by stance? That includes (but may not be limited to):

- Counterattack
- Attack from Beyond
- Bodyguard (is a defense skill, just not defending onesself)
- Support
- Sacrifice
 
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Frank BLACKFIRE
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From another thread

Pallantides wrote:
CardboardAnt wrote:
Actually, it says the only ACTIONS allowed is Guard and Reroll. Does that mean skill use is an action? This surely cannot apply to all skills?
Sacrifice
Bodyguard
Attack from Beyond
Counterattack
Support
to name the obvious ones?

Not all of these require gem use, but Bodyguard does. Is gem use the determining factor?

"Sacrifice" is a passive skill (no guard or parry allowed) so you can sacrifice at any time.

"Bodyguard"...even if you're in cautious stance you can use it as it is a defense action. Rules stated you can only make defense actions and re-roll actions when cautious..but it's not written you can only defend yourself. So you can "guard" for you or another character.

"Attack from beyond" is not an action as you're dead...you just throw the 3 red dice an that's it.

"Counterattack" is a passive skill. It works every time.

"Support" same as counterattack always works, cautious or not.
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Stephan Beal
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Pallantides wrote:
From another thread

Pallantides wrote:
CardboardAnt wrote:
Actually, it says the only ACTIONS allowed is Guard and Reroll. Does that mean skill use is an action? This surely cannot apply to all skills?
Sacrifice
Bodyguard
Attack from Beyond
Counterattack
Support
to name the obvious ones?

Not all of these require gem use, but Bodyguard does. Is gem use the determining factor?

"Sacrifice" is a passive skill (no guard or parry allowed) so you can sacrifice at any time.

"Bodyguard"...even if you're in cautious stance you can use it as it is a defense action. Rules stated you can only make defense actions and re-roll actions when cautious..but it's not written you can only defend yourself. So you can "guard" for you or another character.

"Attack from beyond" is not an action as you're dead...you just throw the 3 red dice an that's it.

"Counterattack" is a passive skill. It works every time.

"Support" same as counterattack always works, cautious or not.


i saw that, and agree completely with it, but we need an answer from Monolith .
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Bad Kam
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sgbeal wrote:
Pallantides wrote:
From another thread

Pallantides wrote:
CardboardAnt wrote:
Actually, it says the only ACTIONS allowed is Guard and Reroll. Does that mean skill use is an action? This surely cannot apply to all skills?
Sacrifice
Bodyguard
Attack from Beyond
Counterattack
Support
to name the obvious ones?

Not all of these require gem use, but Bodyguard does. Is gem use the determining factor?

"Sacrifice" is a passive skill (no guard or parry allowed) so you can sacrifice at any time.

"Bodyguard"...even if you're in cautious stance you can use it as it is a defense action. Rules stated you can only make defense actions and re-roll actions when cautious..but it's not written you can only defend yourself. So you can "guard" for you or another character.

"Attack from beyond" is not an action as you're dead...you just throw the 3 red dice an that's it.

"Counterattack" is a passive skill. It works every time.

"Support" same as counterattack always works, cautious or not.


i saw that, and agree completely with it, but we need an answer from Monolith .


So here it is: Pallantides is totally right on all points
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anthony dybacz
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So, as per this scenario, I was playing correctly; her guards can die for her while she remains on cautious and rolls defence dice for days (only causing her guards to actually take the hit if the OL makes a big roll).
 
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Stephan Beal
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CardboardAnt wrote:
So, as per this scenario, I was playing correctly; her guards can die for her while she remains on cautious and rolls defence dice for days (only causing her guards to actually take the hit if the OL makes a big roll).


Remember that the Guards' Sacrifice ability does not allow them to dodge, thus there is no defense roll.
 
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anthony dybacz
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I am aware. However, the player can choose when a Guard takes the hit, so if the OL rolls 1 or 2 damage then Belit rolls her guard (1 gem) and if the OL rolls 3 or 4 damage then the player can choose a Guard to die instead.

All while Conan is chewing up your archers and pirates whistle
 
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Stephan Beal
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CardboardAnt wrote:
I am aware. However, the player can choose when a Guard takes the hit, so if the OL rolls 1 or 2 damage then Belit rolls her guard (1 gem) and if the OL rolls 3 or 4 damage then the player can choose a Guard to die instead.

All while Conan is chewing up your archers and pirates whistle


Nope...

Sacrifice:

Quote:
When a friendly character in this character's area is attacked, before the dice are rolled, this character may choose to be attacked instead. This character cannot Guard for that defense.


 
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anthony dybacz
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Yep, my bad.
We did actually play it that way, I just had a brain fart when I typed that.

The strategy does not change, however. Belit, on cautious, can take all the hits until she runs out of gems, then let Guards die and then let Hadrathus heal her.

Anyway, as nobody seems to be playing this scenario correctly (with skills use on cautious, Masts, etc..), I guess I have to wait until people try this scenario with the correct rules before I get a second opinion on how to deal with all this...

Going to try this one again a few more times myself.
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Philip Othman
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Had a game of this tonight as a hero player and won, but could immediately see ways in which the OL could approach the game.

Zaporavo is a formidable character and has Support. If you're aggressive with him, you can really hurt the heroes, especially if you have him supporting the archers.

The OL in my game played very safely with Skuthus, but his Energy Drain is extremely strong, particularly against the turtling strat you just described. If Conan and Shev decide to jump across, you can really punish them. Conan only has a sword, so can't take advantage of his Circular Strike and against a Skuthus defended by pirates with his passive that means he can't be targeted, it'll take Conan a fair amount of energy to kill the pirates. You can energy drain him to make sure he is constantly withered and then completely smash him. The added gems help activate more units or guard more.

Also remember Conan doesn't have a shield, so has poor defence against the ranged attacks of the archers. Just lay into him early on and you can totally hamstring him for the game.

Also, don't be too drawn in by the demon. The event tile can let you unleash another archer salvo which like I mentioned, could pepper Conan or it can let you have a massive 6 reinforcement points.

Remember it costs 2 movement points to leap, so you can make it expensive for Conan to attempt it by hindering him with enemies.


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anthony dybacz
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They are all good points to take out Conan, but Conan is totally expendable in this scenario and the OL only has 8 turns.

When I was aggressive with Zaporavo in 1 of the tries, you need to keep back gems to keep him alive (as Conan is able to 1 shot him by putting 5 gems in a single melee attack) meaning it is difficult to keep activating Zaporavo.

The archers double firing is a valid strategy, and I think focus firing Belit is the way to go, personally. But it will take a lot of gems to keep it up meaning Zap becomes vulnerable.

I also think the Demon is useful if Skuthus can survive (I dont agree his energy drain is worthwhile, you need to be adjacent and Skuthus has only 3 life), the Demon should be unleashed once Belits guards are dead and she has taken a few archery wounds (and/or your archers are dead). The Demon has 2 activation tiles and should be used around turn 4 or so (after using the first Event for the archers).

Good to have conversation about tactics, give it another try and see what you think

Edit: hang on, you said Conan is easy to hit with archers due to lack of a sheild? He can still put gems in his guard ability, though. The purpose of that rule is to stop him using equipment against range. But, yes, he is easier to hurt in this scenario.
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Tomas Uhlir
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How do you all understand those three possibilities when activating an event tile? I suppose that by choosing the event tile, I have to choose one of those three options:

1) Reinforcement - 6 reinforcement points
This one is preatty clear. I am just not sure about placeing the reinforcement. How many of the figures fit in those two tiles with a fire token? We agreed that there can be 2 on the mast tile and 6 on the other tile.

2) Fire at will - Each unit may perform a ranged attack if able
What does it mean? That I can activate the archers also with the event tile? Because they are the only figures with a ranged attack, right?

3) Glory to set - Sacrificing Skuthus and summoning the Outer Dark Demon
So far we played it wrong because we though that the Skuthus can be sacrificed only by using the Skuthus tile. This way the event tile seams to be even more important and busy.
 
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Frank BLACKFIRE
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uhlik wrote:
How do you all understand those three possibilities when activating an event tile? I suppose that by choosing the event tile, I have to choose one of those three options:

1) Reinforcement - 6 reinforcement points
This one is preatty clear. I am just not sure about placeing the reinforcement. How many of the figures fit in those two tiles with a fire token? We agreed that there can be 2 on the mast tile and 6 on the other tile.

2) Fire at will - Each unit may perform a ranged attack if able
What does it mean? That I can activate the archers also with the event tile? Because they are the only figures with a ranged attack, right?

3) Glory to set - Sacrificing Skuthus and summoning the Outer Dark Demon
So far we played it wrong because we though that the Skuthus can be sacrificed only by using the Skuthus tile. This way the event tile seams to be even more important and busy.

Yes, you have to choose one these options each time you activate the event tile.

1.You can put figures until you got one miniatures's base which doesn't fit entirely in the area.

2. All the troops with an icon for "ranged attack" can make a free ranged attack (without activating their tile).

3. If you choose the sacrifice of Skuthus, you remove his tile and replace it (in the same place in the river) by 1 tile of the Outer Dark Demon. Then you replace the event tile by a second tile of the Demon, putting it at the end of the river (right).

Remember, when you choose the Skuthus sacrifice, you fulfill half of the victory conditions of the heroes, because Skuthus is dead.

You can't do the sacrifice if Zaporavo is dead already.

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anthony dybacz
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Your assessment of the Event tile is correct, afaik.

Note: Fire at Will allows you to shoot with the archers, not move them as well.

Edit: Pallantides got there first.
 
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Tomas Uhlir
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Oh, I see...so the miniatures's bases don't have to fit completely in the area? But at least a part of it must be on the tile?
Because othervise there would be room for only one miniature on the mast tile and for about 3 on the other tile, so you woulden't be able to use your full 6 reinforcements.
 
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anthony dybacz
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The English manual makes it clear that they have to fit entirely within the area.

However, as you pointed out you would not be able to fit 6 reinforcements on the board so we play a little fast and loose with this rule when reinforcing here.
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Mirko Zennaro
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Play this scenario twice.
Conan can kill Zapravo in two turns.
Shivat attack with range with all die on Zapravo.
Conan jump on first turn directly to boss area and attack with all dice.
The mage give gem.
Belith.. nothing. Guard when attacked with just one gem x attack.
(Attacker roll one orange dice, Belith defend with one orange plus one yellow... just reroll if necessary). Resist at an attack of 6-7 bad guys without a wound.

Dead Zapravo, the other boss is not a problem. Shivat can kill him from range or Conan in melee (if not died in meantime).

P.s: sorry for my English.
 
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