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Pedro Sequeira
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One case that should make it clear 100% is if you have a choice in a crisis that would bring a resource to 0, but instead you go with the other option

Still, last game I thought I did something just as good, even if it took a bit more to "calculate", but instead got the players even more suspicious, d'oh!

1 cylon was revealed, distance 4, and I was admiral with Cain.

One player wanted to give me an XO to do a blind jump, but we were just 1 step from making the jump at -3 (with plenty of food, but all other resources kind of low), so I thought it was kind of a waste, and said I would prefer to do it after the next jump, from the 1st position , so I said I would like the XO, to send a nuke or 2 instead, there was an area with ~16 ships, including 2 battlestars and 2 heavy raiders (I had the +2 on dice card)

2 human players saw this as cylon talk, because I didnt want to do the jump

My argument was that if I was a cylon I would have just agreed with their plan, and reveal with the XO, instead of setting doubts about myself.

Did I overthink this?
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Victor Lesperance
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The first story that comes to mind:
I was running the game at a Con, which I *love* because you encounter such varying play styles that its like playing the game for the first time.

FYI, *everyone* is human.

Turn 1 of the game, I picked Starbuck and moved behind Galactica to guard the 2 civvies there. The 3 starting raiders advanced once.

Turn 2, player 2 says, "I think I'll XO Starbuck to get closer to the raiders."

I replied, "Please don't. If I move twice I'll be with them, without an action to shoot. If I move once, I have no card for the 2nd action. And either way, I'm happy to let them come to me - build my hand - AND they may never even reach me before the jump."

He XO'd me anyway. I said, "Sorry, but I skip both actions."

He threw a fit and swore I was a Cylon and convinced most of the table that I was...

Admittedly, I made it worse. I started to retort, "As a Cylon, I would do as you say, building good will, inevitably get shot down, and thus suck more XO's just to get back where I started, or better yet, be out of position if raiders do move fast..."

But after 3 days of non-stop BSG action (and no sleep), I said, "As a Cylon..." Frustrated pause. Sigh. New thought. "I'm fine staying right where I am."

He retorts, "See?!? He just said, 'As a Cylon, I'm fine staying right where I am...'"

I was ostracized from the 2nd turn of the game til the end over that little bit of weirdness.

So, that's the on-topic part of the story. To continue:

The admiral was played by a brand new, just learning player. The crisis then came up allowing someone to see his loyalty card. He made sure it didn't happen. So, its turn 4 and everyone was sure he was the 2nd cylon.

Again... we're all human.

(Though, I do agree with being suspicious of the Admiral. That was an odd move, but it was his first game, even before his first turn, and he played GREAT by the end.)

So, the 2 of us are total outcasts from the beginning. He jumps straight from 0 to 3 then 3 to 6... and, of course, both of us then become the 2 cylons. Doh!

Other than low fuel from those massive jumps, all resources are fine. Before I even get a turn as a cylon, they brig me. I figure I have no hope this game. Straight jump preps in a row - I still haven't got a turn as a cylon, we jump again! Hopeless.

Distance *one*, taking us only to 7! The admiral is immediately brigged.

The admiral is next. At which point, I say, "I don't know if you're a Cylon or that was bad luck. But, *I* am a cylon and I could sure use an XO about now..."

The brigged Admiral replies, "Then an XO you shall have, my friend."

I reveal and get my super crisis. My turn is next and I play it. Inbound Nukes. Both the Admiral and I had saved 5 point skill cards. And team human was temporarily low from the double briggings. -1 fuel and victory.


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Victor Lesperance
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In regards to the OP, I think you might be under thinking it. (As in, take your argument to the next level to see the flaw)

First, with 16 ships in play, I (as a human) would likely have blind jumped. Why? The con is that you wasted 2 jump preps. But there are many pros.

1. You insta-kill 16 cylon ships. That's alot.
2. A "free jump" is shockingly wonderful. But you only draw 1 destination. That means alot of randomness in both distance and fuel consumption. You want all randomness as early as possible, so your following jumps can adjust appropriately.

ie, lets say you slog through those 16 ships and get a normal jump, as you proposed,...

If you draw any combo with a distance 3, then you're hosed. Blind jump deactivates at 7. So if you pick the 3, so much for your attempt to save 2 jump preps. You just cost an entire cycle. If you don't pick the 3, you can then blind jump next turn. But if you draw a 1, you again just cost an entire jump cycle.

Or you get a 2 and a 1. You pick 2 of course. But then you blind jump next cycle and draw an over-the-top 3 which kills your fuel for the loss. Had you known, you could have picked the 1 earlier for the win. But you can't know the future. Which is why you tackle randomness earlier so you can play deterministic afterwards.

So, does that mean you're hoping for double 2's to pick from? Well, if you had blind jumped, you'd get the 2 then the next jump would have a 2 guaranteeing distance 8. But now you get 2 and hope that the blind jump is yet a third 2.

Blah...

And with 2 cylons in the rotation, how do you know you'll get an XO (or a turn) before another 2 jump preps in the next cycle anyway?

You're taking a ton of risk (16 ships, 2 nukes, 2 strategic plannings, and up to 8ish jump preps) for a maximum gain of 2 jump preps.

But all of that is just to say that I agree that your argument smacked of "cylon talk."

Which takes us to your main point.

Songok wrote:
My argument was that if I was a cylon I would have just agreed with their plan, and reveal with the XO, instead of setting doubts about myself.


That's why this game is amazing. The very logic of your argument destroys your argument.

*If* they agree with your [very excellent] premise, then that *becomes* a motive for a Cylon to say the very same thing.

By making that argument, (which by your logic proves your humanity), a Cylon could make that same argument, thus clearing him 100% of being a cylon (your very premise). If you're thus "above suspicion" then someone else (who must be human) must be a cylon! The humans can not coordinate properly for the remainder of the game. Discord reigns. And you're free to spike and tank with impunity because your 100% humanity was already proven.

And (IMO) a truly above-suspicion, hidden Cylon is the most powerful position in the game - far better than simply revealing and pegging Caprica for the last turn or 2.

So, there exists a Cylon (me!) who would parrot those exact words in that exact situation, because I find the free XO and reveal as less valuable than having all players believe me human, casting doubt on another human, retaining the admiralty for several more turns, burning the nukes early, and slipping a distance 1 into the next jump.

Therefore, the stronger your rationale, the more a cylon would be willing to pay to use it, thus negating it entirely. And, joyfully, that's true of any "proof of humanity" example. The skill of this game is making people believe in "proofs of humanity."
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Jordan Booth
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Kept in the Brig for 80% of the game instead of playing. (4 player game, so only one cylon possible)

First and last game.
 
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1) As Galen, I XO-ed what ended up being the humans for every one of my turns. Then one player accused me of being a cylon. After the game, he admitted that something in his logic somehow landed me as the cylon. I spent 1/4 to 1/3 of the latter part of the game in the brig.



2) In another game, I happened to have shaved recently, so even though not having facial hair 'sort of works" in Werewolf to convince others that you're not a werewolf, a few of the players in the game of BSG did come from that.
 
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Pedro Cast
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In the game mentioned in this post, i was playing “Apollo” between “Baltar” and “Cain” (Songok).

To be honest, this was my first Galactica game, so I was just trying to get a grasp from it, without really knowing for sure what I was doing.

Earlier in the game, I managed to convince everyone I was really human because I killed a centurion using a +2 card (if I was a Cylon, why use the card, right?...)

So then came the situation where all humans realized that, between “Baltar” and “Cain“, one of them was a Cylon almost for sure and Baltar decided to use his power for seeing Cain`s loyalty cards, making a kind of accusation on her (him).

It was then my turn and so I had to decide whether I let a possible/probable Cylon play after me or whether I should sent him to the brig.

I had not full confidence in Baltar since he had failed a couple of important skill tests with the argument he had some “very important cards in his hand”…

However, I also had in mind the situation here reported by Songok (“Cain”):

If we took the jump we would lose population but I believe we had 9 at the time, it was no big deal.
I thought it would be a “long shot” to use a nuke to destroy the Cylon ships (even with the +2 card). Besides, there was an heavy rider ready to enter Galactica and, if the nuke failed, we would lose population all the same.

However, it was not only this that made me suspicious about Cain, it was mainly his strong defense about using the nuke when all the crew (including a masked Cylon ehehe) was in favour of using the jump…At the time, I did think it was not a big deal for a Cylon to use a XO to reveal itself, as Songok claimed.

In short, I was 60% convinced Cain was a Cylon and 40% convinced about Baltar being one, so I sent Cain to the brig.

Her later sacrifice allow us to play against two revealed Cylons (Baltar was exposed) but we end up losing on fuel…
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Robert Stewart
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The thing is, the most human-like action is exactly what a Cylon seeking to maintain his cover would do. There are actions only Cylons would take (or humans who deserve to lose having given the Cylons perfect cover), but no actions only humans would take (though actually winning the game for humans is a sign of an incompetent Cylon).

On the other hand, if people are willing to do exactly what a human would under the circumstances, I don't much care whether they turn out to have been Cylon all along or not - so long as there's no sign of Cylon activity, I have no interest in investing resources into a witch hunt (though Witch Hunt is another matter) - let them keep helping and stay in a strong position to contain the damage after their sudden-but-inevitable betrayal...
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Pedro Sequeira
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Victor completly agree with you on the jumping early for the -randomness,

Just didnt want to do it before finding out if i would turn into a cylon eheh, so as soon as we were at 4 i asked for an XO to jump, it was just that at that point i didnt see it as worth it anymore

(and yeah, hoping to get a 2, and them jump again asap)

One thing that might be important (unless i messed up the rules, but i dont think because no one used that argument to prove me wrong)

We were playing with an expansion with an extra board for cylon ships.

I think destroying them removes them from the game, but simply jumping would take them to this board, ready to reach galactica again, hence why i thought nuking was better


And of course, everyone is right that going to 100% is only possible by not taking an action that would win the games for cylon, but there are some that come close (or the cylon is just bad eheh
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Yep, with the Cylon Fleet Board nuking basestars and possibly the whole sectorfull of cylon ships before jumping is very good. What you leave behind comes to bite you at the end.
 
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Songok wrote:

One thing that might be important (unless i messed up the rules, but i dont think because no one used that argument to prove me wrong)

We were playing with an expansion with an extra board for cylon ships.

I think destroying them removes them from the game, but simply jumping would take them to this board, ready to reach galactica again, hence why i thought nuking was better


Not to mince words, but this confusion did come up once (so just in case)... basestars go back to their off board supply. Not to be confused with being permanently removed from the game (goes back into the box) via elements from Daybreak Expansion.

With the Cylon Fleet Board (that extra board for cylon ships), they would go there from the MGB (main game board) after you jump
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Victor Lesperance
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Songok wrote:

Just didnt want to do it before finding out if i would turn into a cylon eheh, so as soon as we were at 4 i asked for an XO to jump, it was just that at that point i didnt see it as worth it anymore


Oh! There might be a typo in your original post. If you were only distance 3 or less with a Cylon Fleet board in play, then most of what I said is non-applicable.

I wouldn't have blind jumped either, pre-sleeper.
 
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Pedro Sequeira
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at the point in time that i describe in the first post we were at distance 4, so after the new loyalty cards phase.

I was just agreeing that it's best to jump asap, but only after this phase, meaning, i'm not sure if jumping as the first action in the game (as a human) is a good thing, because if then we turn to cylon we gave a big advantage to the humans.

hope that makes sense ^^
 
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Greg S
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Rolled the dice on the Pegasus main weapons, killed 4 cylon raiders. Still didn't shut up the person accusing me. Of course, he had looked at my loyalty card (on his very first turn soblue) and knew I was a cylon whistle
 
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