$30.00
Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Conan» Forums » General

Subject: Kudos on particular aspects of the manual rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Despite the forum seeing a groundswell of annoyance and confusion regarding the rules/skills/scenarios, i feel there are a few things Monolith and/or FFG did a fantastic job of with regard to these elements of the game, and feel somewhat compelled to point them out:

a) They are completely gender-neutral, almost painfully so. Except for specific references to specific characters, there is no "he" or "she" or "he/she" in the documentation. References to Conan are always "he", of course, but the Overlord never has a gender.

b) The core rules are short and sweet and, IMO, rather precise. In the core rules i have yet to experience a single facepalm moment.

c) during the KS campaign they listened to feedback and changed the dice imagery so that orange/red dice are clearly distinct from one another (via the addition of the triangle/diamond/circle symbols). (The same symbols on the dice themselves are too small to distinguish, but the important bit is that the dice in the documentation are unambiguous.)

So... there is that.

EDIT: please don't use this thread to rag on the docs or vent frustrations - there are many other threads more appropriate for that. This particular thread is about giving credit where it is due.
22 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
sgbeal wrote:

a) They are completely gender-neutral, almost painfully so. Except for specific references to specific characters, there is no "he" or "she" or "he/she" in the documentation. References to Conan are always "he", of course, but the Overlord never has a gender.


Great for the BGG chattering class, but I'd have preferred that effort go into the bits of the rules / scenarios that allows me to play the game.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr Skeletor wrote:
sgbeal wrote:

a) They are completely gender-neutral, almost painfully so. Except for specific references to specific characters, there is no "he" or "she" or "he/she" in the documentation. References to Conan are always "he", of course, but the Overlord never has a gender.


Great for the BGG chattering class, but I'd have preferred that effort go into the bits of the rules / scenarios that allows me to play the game.


i respectfully ask that you take complaints/concerns about the docs to the numerous threads dedicated to that (or start a new one). This particular thread is about giving credit where it is due. My bad for not having made that explicit in the original post.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Loig Roumois
Switzerland
Baden
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
well maybe the points you mentioned are the only ones where credit is due?...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
sgbeal wrote:

i respectfully ask that you take complaints/concerns about the docs to the numerous threads dedicated to that (or start a new one). This particular thread is about giving credit where it is due. My bad for not having made that explicit in the original post.


Sorry, I didn't realize your point of view was so much more important than mine.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr Skeletor wrote:
sgbeal wrote:

i respectfully ask that you take complaints/concerns about the docs to the numerous threads dedicated to that (or start a new one). This particular thread is about giving credit where it is due. My bad for not having made that explicit in the original post.


Sorry, I didn't realize your point of view was so much more important than mine.


You want to make your own, separate point, please do so in your own, separate thread.
8 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David E
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Boardgame Aesthete
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sgbeal wrote:
You want to make your own, separate point, please do so in your own, separate thread.


I sympathize with you, but good luck telling people they are only allowed to talk about what you want to talk about in a thread.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Ottawa
Ontario
msg tools
Avatar
sgbeal wrote:
Despite the forum seeing a groundswell of annoyance and confusion regarding the rules/skills/scenarios, i feel there are a few things Monolith and/or FFG did a fantastic job of with regard to these elements of the game, and feel somewhat compelled to point them out:

a) They are completely gender-neutral, almost painfully so. Except for specific references to specific characters, there is no "he" or "she" or "he/she" in the documentation. References to Conan are always "he", of course, but the Overlord never has a gender.

b) The core rules are short and sweet and, IMO, rather precise. In the core rules i have yet to experience a single facepalm moment.

c) during the KS campaign they listened to feedback and changed the dice imagery so that orange/red dice are clearly distinct from one another (via the addition of the triangle/diamond/circle symbols). (The same symbols on the dice themselves are too small to distinguish, but the important bit is that the dice in the documentation are unambiguous.)

So... there is that.

EDIT: please don't use this thread to rag on the docs or vent frustrations - there are many other threads more appropriate for that. This particular thread is about giving credit where it is due.


Listen, friend, I know you're trying to be positive. I get the sunshine and lollipops attitude and I understand how it can be beneficial to look at the sunny side of things . . . but when you're forgiving of a product that is this poor you inadvertently become part of the problem.

The team behind this dreadful shit-show needs to understand that it's not okay. They need to know they messed up and they need to be reminded of their stupidity as often as possible. New possible players looking to get into the game and give Monolith their hard-earned money also need to know what they are getting themselves into. This is the only power we have as consumers. We can not buy something and we can bitch loud enough to prevent other people from buying something.

Things I like about the Conan manual:
1) If I roll it up I can use it as a funnel.
2) I can use it as a fan on a hot day.
3) If I wrap it up tightly I can use it to kill insects or hit people.

. . . at least the gender neutral pronouns give the imaginary monster seekers on this site one less thing to wring their hands over, but this is Conan we're talking about and there are a lot of boobs in the game and boobs are super sexist, ya know.
8 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
broken clock wrote:
The team behind this dreadful shit-show needs to understand that it's not okay. They need to know they messed up and they need to be reminded of their stupidity as often as possible.


And the entirely of the Conan BGG forum is drilling that message through to them over, and over, and over, and over again.

This one single thread is not about that.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Ottawa
Ontario
msg tools
Avatar
sgbeal wrote:
broken clock wrote:
The team behind this dreadful shit-show needs to understand that it's not okay. They need to know they messed up and they need to be reminded of their stupidity as often as possible.


And the entirely of the Conan BGG forum is drilling that message through to them over, and over, and over, and over again.

This one single thread is not about that.


What if I balance out my negative insults toward the manual with positive affirmations?

The manual reads as if it were written by someone with a severe learning disability.

I really appreciate Monolith helping out the community by providing individuals with severe learning disabilities gainful employment.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
broken clock wrote:
The manual reads as if it were written by someone with a severe learning disability.


Broken clock? More like a broken record.

Seeing as i have had no problems interpreting the manuals, other than the numerous translation-related screw-ups in the skills, spells, and scenarios (not the core rules) discussed at length elsewhere, i can only assume that your difficulties in reading them reveals more about yourself than about the authors.


Edit: this post has already been moderated, so there's no point in reporting it again . i will not delete it because it's already quoted, in its entirety, in another post below, so deleting it would serve no purpose other than to lose context and cause confusion about who said what to whom.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clanggedin Silverbeard
United States
SALEM
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I had no issues reading the rulebooks or manuals either. You are either a 'glass half full' or a 'glass half empty' person.

I bet it is the font they used that is causing all of the confusion as font choice can greatly effect comprehension of the text.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Ottawa
Ontario
msg tools
Avatar
sgbeal wrote:
broken clock wrote:
The manual reads as if it were written by someone with a severe learning disability.


Broken clock? More like a broken record.

Seeing as i have had no problems interpreting the manuals, other than the numerous translation-related screw-ups in the skills, spells, and scenarios (not the core rules) discussed at length elsewhere, i can only assume that your difficulties in reading them reveals more about yourself than about the authors.


Yep! That's me! I'm just a dumb-dumb with a MA in English and a job writing instruction manuals. What do I know?!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
broken clock wrote:
Yep! That's me! I'm just a dumb-dumb with a MA in English and a job writing instruction manuals. What do I know?!


"Pulling rank" doesn't impress. i'm a life-long programmer and technical writer, both professionally and in my free time, whose passion it is to write clear and unambiguous text, for people as well as brain-dead machines. The core Conan manuals, by and large, succeed notably in both of those criteria. The skills, the spells, and the scenarios, on the other hand, got inexplicably buggered up along the way.
5 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David E
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Boardgame Aesthete
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Someone is wrong on the Internet.
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Ottawa
Ontario
msg tools
Avatar
sgbeal wrote:
broken clock wrote:
Yep! That's me! I'm just a dumb-dumb with a MA in English and a job writing instruction manuals. What do I know?!


"Pulling rank" doesn't impress. i'm a life-long programmer and technical writer, both professionally and in my free time, whose passion it is to write clear and unambiguous text, for people as well as brain-dead machines. The core Conan manuals, by and large, succeed notably in both of those criteria. The skills, the spells, and the scenarios, on the other hand, got inexplicably buggered up along the way.


Not trying to impress, just pointing out the stupidity of attempting to suggest that there is something wrong with me as a reader . . . despite the fact that your response wasn't actually addressing any comment I made, since I made no mention of not understanding the manual. Ironic.

A tip for you, since you probably primarily write internal update/technical notes to an actual team of writers: If tons of people are yelling that your manual is bad and they are having difficulties understanding it . . . your manual is bad.

. . . .

Just messing with you! You're right! The core Conan manual is unambiguous and clearly written. I'll go let all those people in the forums know that they are dumb-dumbs for questioning the incredibly clear rules.

Let's get back to praising this manual, shall we!


4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
sgbeal wrote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
sgbeal wrote:

i respectfully ask that you take complaints/concerns about the docs to the numerous threads dedicated to that (or start a new one). This particular thread is about giving credit where it is due. My bad for not having made that explicit in the original post.


Sorry, I didn't realize your point of view was so much more important than mine.


You want to make your own, separate point, please do so in your own, separate thread.


I have a better idea, how about we don't spam the forums with 100 separate posts about the manual?
There were already posts about the manual that you could have replied to. Anyone disagreeing with that they sucked are more than free to post there. Yet not only did you feel the need to create your own thread but then you go and dictate what opinions can be posted on it?
Instead of bossing people around come up with a far more solid argument next time.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Manuel Ingeland
Sweden
Uppsala
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I get your point with this thread, Stephan.
You have my support.

I can't be bothered to explain my point of view here, since it has been done sooo many times before.

Come on, bite me, broken records, trolls and whiners of BGG!

'cause that's what it's all about...right?
Punchbags and scapegoats for disappointed big boys.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C B
United States
Twin Cities
Minnesota
flag msg tools
flying
badge
dutchman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr Skeletor wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
sgbeal wrote:

i respectfully ask that you take complaints/concerns about the docs to the numerous threads dedicated to that (or start a new one). This particular thread is about giving credit where it is due. My bad for not having made that explicit in the original post.


Sorry, I didn't realize your point of view was so much more important than mine.


You want to make your own, separate point, please do so in your own, separate thread.


I have a better idea, how about we don't spam the forums with 100 separate posts about the manual?
There were already posts about the manual that you could have replied to. Anyone disagreeing with that they sucked are more than free to post there. Yet not only did you feel the need to create your own thread but then you go and dictate what opinions can be posted on it?
Instead of bossing people around come up with a far more solid argument next time.

That's kinda the point of separate threads... To separate viewpoints and to be able to stay on topic. So, Stephan was well within his rights to declare what the topic of this thread was.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Izzy Marsh
United Kingdom
Lancashire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb




4 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Blood
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
broken clock wrote:


The team behind this dreadful shit-show needs to understand that it's not okay. They need to know they messed up and they need to be reminded of their stupidity as often as possible.


My boxes arrived yesterday. I read both books earlier today. I don't see what everyone is complaining about. The only thing I found confusing were the movement rules, and I found a good explanation over in the rules forum here on BGG.

Granted, I have not played yet, and I expect some situations will come up when I actually get a game in. But on a first read, they seem fine.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig H
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Is this a good place for me to complain about not even having a shipping notice yet...? whistle
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emivaldo Sousa
Brazil
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ampoliros wrote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
sgbeal wrote:

i respectfully ask that you take complaints/concerns about the docs to the numerous threads dedicated to that (or start a new one). This particular thread is about giving credit where it is due. My bad for not having made that explicit in the original post.


Sorry, I didn't realize your point of view was so much more important than mine.


You want to make your own, separate point, please do so in your own, separate thread.


I have a better idea, how about we don't spam the forums with 100 separate posts about the manual?
There were already posts about the manual that you could have replied to. Anyone disagreeing with that they sucked are more than free to post there. Yet not only did you feel the need to create your own thread but then you go and dictate what opinions can be posted on it?
Instead of bossing people around come up with a far more solid argument next time.

That's kinda the point of separate threads... To separate viewpoints and to be able to stay on topic. So, Stephan was well within his rights to declare what the topic of this thread was.
I guess the problem was not setting the topic, but the tone.

A forum is primarily a place for discussion. Saying: let´s just praise the rulebook on this thread is at least weird. The usual thing to do is discuss about the manual and say the positive, the negative, the neutral and, you know, discuss.

Are we creating a safe space for the rulebook in this thread? I think the different topics exist to separate subjects, not viewpoints. Healthy discussion can be productive and will actually help the developers. Reinforcing our own opinions in a safe space is a losing proposition from the get go.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
anthony dybacz
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
geekd wrote:

My boxes arrived yesterday. I read both books earlier today. I don't see what everyone is complaining about. The only thing I found confusing were the movement rules, and I found a good explanation over in the rules forum here on BGG.

Granted, I have not played yet, and I expect some situations will come up when I actually get a game in. But on a first read, they seem fine.


The rulebooks seem fine on first read but when you play they neglect to help you make informed decisions on how to handle certain cases (Like LoS -players decide how this works; but it appears to work slightly differently on certain boards, like the ships masts). YMMV on these sorts of things, but it would at least be nice to have some guideline example diagrams.

A bigger problem is the scenarios and the skills; these are plagued by numerous translation issues, glaring ommissions or unhelpful phraseology.

Then there is all your stretch goals, which for most (not all) are totally ommited from the literature (despite there being a manual in the SG box) with not even any basic guidelines for how to implement them.

Finally, there are some typos and errors on some game components.

Monolith has said they will release new manuals and will publish guidelines on using SGs.

Hope that helps to clarify people's positions here.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
zinho73 wrote:
Are we creating a safe space for the rulebook in this thread? I think the different topics exist to separate subjects, not viewpoints. Healthy discussion can be productive and will actually help the developers. Reinforcing our own opinions in a safe space is a losing proposition from the get go.


A quick scan of the forum will reveal that i am quite active in many threads in the Conan forum (i wouldn't be surprised if i'm in the top 3 or 4 posters, to be honest), and by no means all of them have something positive/constructive to say about the game . i.e. i am not building an echo chamber. i specifically set the subject of this thread, asked people to stay on-topic (as defined by the first post), and hoped that people would respect that. My hope was proven quite ill-founded, obviously.
6 
 Thumb up
0.03
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.