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Michael Frost

Iowa
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I don't see anything in the rules that says a player who gets new Treasure, Parrot, or Goal cards has to draw them from the top of the respective decks.

The rules make a big deal about putting discarded/unchosen cards at the bottom of the deck. For example, "Any excess goal cards drawn must be placed face down at the bottom of the goal card stack (in any order)." (italics for word "bottom" in the original)

But when acquiring them it just says things like:

"...gains 1 treasure card from the treasure card stack for each."
"...he would receive 1 parrot card from the parrot card stack."
"...gains 1 parrot card from the parrot card stack for each."
"...he draws 1 goal card from the goal card stack."
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Pedro Pereira
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Since it doesn't specifically state that you can draw a card from anywhere out of the deck, I would treat this by the conventional rule that whenever you draw a new card, you do it from the top of the deck.
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Michael Frost

Iowa
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Pedrator wrote:
Since it doesn't specifically state that you can draw a card from anywhere out of the deck, I would treat this by the conventional rule that whenever you draw a new card, you do it from the top of the deck.


I would agree, though I'm just trying to see if there is anything explicit in the rules. Just a bit odd that the rules clearly discuss the bottom of the deck for unchosen/discarded cards but not the top of the deck when it comes to drawing new cards.

Just reminds me that I wish all rule writers would make sure to cover such things. Not hard to do. A good rule book is worth its weight in gold!
 
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Pedro Pereira
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MPMelanchthon wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
Since it doesn't specifically state that you can draw a card from anywhere out of the deck, I would treat this by the conventional rule that whenever you draw a new card, you do it from the top of the deck.


I would agree, though I'm just trying to see if there is anything explicit in the rules. Just a bit odd that the rules clearly discuss the bottom of the deck for unchosen/discarded cards but not the top of the deck when it comes to drawing new cards.

Just reminds me that I wish all rule writers would make sure to cover such things. Not hard to do. A good rule book is worth its weight in gold!

it didn't even occur to me to question this. To me, drawing a card from a deck is to draw the top most card of that deck.

I would only do otherwise if specified otherwise, such as: draw a random card from the deck.

for example... so I'm fine with how the rules are written, unless they now chime in saying that you are meant to draw a card from anywhere in the deck, I would have an issue with that.
 
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Michael Frost

Iowa
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Pedrator wrote:
MPMelanchthon wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
Since it doesn't specifically state that you can draw a card from anywhere out of the deck, I would treat this by the conventional rule that whenever you draw a new card, you do it from the top of the deck.


I would agree, though I'm just trying to see if there is anything explicit in the rules. Just a bit odd that the rules clearly discuss the bottom of the deck for unchosen/discarded cards but not the top of the deck when it comes to drawing new cards.

Just reminds me that I wish all rule writers would make sure to cover such things. Not hard to do. A good rule book is worth its weight in gold!

it didn't even occur to me to question this. To me, drawing a card from a deck is to draw the top most card of that deck.

I would only do otherwise if specified otherwise, such as: draw a random card from the deck.

for example... so I'm fine with how the rules are written, unless they now chime in saying that you are meant to draw a card from anywhere in the deck, I would have an issue with that.


I tend to agree, but here the rule writer made such a big deal about the bottom of the deck when he wanted to but then in the plethora of citations about drawing a card from one of 3 decks never once said how. To take them from the top. When so many other rule books make that clear in the rules.

It should be second nature to a game designer to ensure the rule book makes sure the most taken actions, the critical things you can do, are clearly spelled out. Like: "Draw the parrot card from the top of the deck." And "Discard any excess goal cards to the bottom of the deck, face down, in any order you want."
 
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Michael Frost

Iowa
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Pedrator wrote:
MPMelanchthon wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
Since it doesn't specifically state that you can draw a card from anywhere out of the deck, I would treat this by the conventional rule that whenever you draw a new card, you do it from the top of the deck.


I would agree, though I'm just trying to see if there is anything explicit in the rules. Just a bit odd that the rules clearly discuss the bottom of the deck for unchosen/discarded cards but not the top of the deck when it comes to drawing new cards.

Just reminds me that I wish all rule writers would make sure to cover such things. Not hard to do. A good rule book is worth its weight in gold!

it didn't even occur to me to question this. To me, drawing a card from a deck is to draw the top most card of that deck.

I would only do otherwise if specified otherwise, such as: draw a random card from the deck.

for example... so I'm fine with how the rules are written, unless they now chime in saying that you are meant to draw a card from anywhere in the deck, I would have an issue with that.


And in this case I think the rule book is quite mediocre. First and foremost it is NOT 8 1/2 x 11 or 8 1/2 x 14 (inches), which are standard paper sizes in USA for photocopiers. So hard to photocopy the rule book to allow you to then highlight, underline and otherwise mark important rules in a photocopied rule book copy. Second, there aren't enough examples of actual game play in it. And third, too much ambiguity in regard to things that should be spelled out (like drawing cards from top of deck). Fourth, things are found in odd places (e.g., the discussion about whether the person who passes and gets a building claim action must place their meeple on the corresponding color--which they don't unlike the person who wins the auction--is in the rule section for the person who wins the auction not the rule section for the person who passes).

Once again, yet another relatively mediocre rule book!
 
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Pedro Pereira
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I actually found the rules to be quite good. Easy to understand and I had now questions after trying out the game.

Also, regarding the "big deal" about putting cards back to the bottom, I believe this is the case because the convention is to discard cards on a separate pile face up. So there you go. If it was anything other than drawing from the top of the deck, I'm sure the writer would have made the same big deal about that as well...

Nothing wrong with the rules and the size of the pages can help spread out the information in a useful fashion rather than make it convenient to photocopy...
 
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Michael Frost

Iowa
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As I've indicated, the rule book lacks explanation or good examples in critical places (e.g., why no discussion about the ongoing auction as multiple players bid and then finally pass, that is say the 2nd and 3rd players to pass in a 4-plyr game?), and it has some rules in odd places.

You may not photocopy rule books, but I do every time. So I can highlight and underline important rules I want or need to remember. I know many others who do, too. Who wants to mark on their original full-color rule book?
 
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Michael Frost

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And since I plan on playing this 2-plyr a lot, wish all the 2-plyr rule variations were in one place. Makes that so much easier. Rather than hunting for each section where a 2-plyr rule variation is set out.
 
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