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Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles» Forums » Rules

Subject: Unit moving along behind hedgerow is Open Ground? rss

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Martin Mackenzie
France
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In the diagram - the US MG unit may Op Fire at the German unit moving from F8 to E8. Line of Sight is Good - as Hedgerows are both adjacent to firer/target so don't block. Correct ?

And the US MG unit would qualify for the +4 modifier as the German unit is considered to be in Open Ground. Correct ?

Thx
 
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Chris Severs
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I'm not sure it counts as open terrain, surely they'd get cover off the hedge?
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Masonstone wrote:
In the diagram - the US MG unit may Op Fire at the German unit moving from F8 to E8. Line of Sight is Good - as Hedgerows are both adjacent to firer/target so don't block. Correct ?

Yes, there's LOS, but no on the +4; in order for the Germans to be considered moving in open ground, the MG unit would have to be adjacent to E8.
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Russ Williams
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kuhrusty wrote:
Masonstone wrote:
In the diagram - the US MG unit may Op Fire at the German unit moving from F8 to E8. Line of Sight is Good - as Hedgerows are both adjacent to firer/target so don't block. Correct ?

Yes, there's LOS, but no on the +4; in order for the Germans to be considered moving in open ground, the MG unit would have to be adjacent to E8.


Hmm, that's an unexpected odd exceptional case there which I hadn't noticed (not having played with hedgerows yet):
55.0 wrote:
Fire at Infantry or Guns is reduced (-2) for a hedgerow only if
the target is adjacent to the hedgerow and the fire attack passes
through that hedgerow. This reduced FP applies even if the
target is moving, and in that case, the hedgerow negates the
moving in the open modifier. However, target units do NOT
get the benefit of the hedgerow when they move into or out of
a hex on the opposite side of a hedgerow from a firing unit.
They may also be considered moving in Open Ground in that
case. As long as two units on opposite sides of the same
hedgerow are not moving, they BOTH get the terrain benefit
of the hedgerow.
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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russ wrote:
(not having played with hedgerows yet)

What! Oh yeah, this is posted under Ghost Panzer... the original Screaming Eagles starter scenario was all hedgerows.

55.0 wrote:
However, target units do NOT
get the benefit of the hedgerow when they move into or out of
a hex on the opposite side of a hedgerow from a firing unit.
They may also be considered moving in Open Ground in that
case.

Yeah, it might be more clear if that bold part was something like "on the opposite side of a hedgerow next to a firing unit," but it's one of those things that makes sense when you think about what's supposed to be happening. If my guys are moving right behind a hedgerow, and you're firing from a distance, you only get fleeting glimpses of my guys... but if you're right up against the hedgerow yourself, looking through it, you've got a clear shot at my guys running up toward it or along it.

(The next bit about stationary units adjacent to the same hedgerow, firing through it, both getting a -2--not sure how to visualize that, but at least it's "fair," and simple.)
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Russ Williams
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kuhrusty wrote:
russ wrote:
(not having played with hedgerows yet)

What! Oh yeah, this is posted under Ghost Panzer... the original Screaming Eagles starter scenario was all hedgerows.

Yep, I was wondering why this was a Ghost Panzer thread... maybe an admin will move it to Screaming Eagles.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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russ wrote:
Yep, I was wondering why this was a Ghost Panzer thread...

Well, as I understand it, nothing really exciting happened on the eastern front until the Americans got there.
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Martin Mackenzie
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Thx for the responses guys - I supposed I missed the relevance of "opposite sides of the same hedgerow.


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Liam (Away/AFK)
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Moved from to Band of Brothers: Ghost Panzer to Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles
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beresford dickens
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Masonstone wrote:
Thx for the responses guys - I supposed I missed the relevance of "opposite sides of the same hedgerow.


Yes, it is opposite sides of the SAME hedgerow hexside.
 
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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I can see where the possibility of confusion can come in. We'll add a word or two to the rules to clear that up for the future.
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Charlie 40
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How can there a LOS through 2 hedgerows?

It was tough enough to see through one hedgerow, unless you crawled over it, and then you would be on the other side, without cover or concealment.
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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charlie four zero wrote:
How can there a LOS through 2 hedgerows?

When a unit is adjacent to a hedgerow, the game treats them as being right up against it, firing through it, using it as cover. Two such units, with open ground between them, have LOS & can fire at each other, but they're both getting the benefit of the defensive terrain. Once either of them backs off from their hedgerow, there's no LOS.
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Martin Gallo
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This hedgerow thing has always been an issue with every tactical game I have ever played. Every opponent I have played against has just shrugged with me and we play on.

These must be the child version of hedgerows rather than the full grown versions?

I have house ruled that its "behind" a hedgerow are "fully hidden" when moving but "obscured" when firing. This breaks some games because of how the hedgerows meet on some maps for some games - Too easy to just walk across some maps without ever having to face fire.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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martimer wrote:
I have house ruled that its "behind" a hedgerow are "fully hidden" when moving but "obscured" when firing.

I'm sure it would screw up the existing scenarios, but I wonder if you could borrow from Operation Dauntless: The Battles for Fontenay and Rauray, France, June 1944: there, a unit in "concealing terrain" (bocage, etc.) can't be seen from a distance unless/until it fires; at that point, you can take op fire at it, but then it goes back to being concealed.
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Martin Gallo
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kuhrusty wrote:
martimer wrote:
I have house ruled that its "behind" a hedgerow are "fully hidden" when moving but "obscured" when firing.

I'm sure it would screw up the existing scenarios, but I wonder if you could borrow from Operation Dauntless: The Battles for Fontenay and Rauray, France, June 1944: there, a unit in "concealing terrain" (bocage, etc.) can't be seen from a distance unless/until it fires; at that point, you can take op fire at it, but then it goes back to being concealed.
It would probably mess up some BoB scenarios. Map design generally follows the design intent of the game.

Hedgerows are a "funny" terrain feature that seems to "break" most games rules.

I do like where you are going, though. LOS and protection..
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