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Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » General

Subject: I'm failing dramatically as IP and I don't know why rss

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**Spoilers follow for Side Mission: Generous Donations. This was our first side mission, and we're about to begin Story Mission: A New Threat.**

To set the stage: I'm using tech superiority as my class deck, and the rebels are playing with Diala, Fenn, Gideon, and Mak.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
IMO, this mission's final objective lends itself to make one side feel utterly hopeless. In this case, it was me. Some quick info: I'm using tech superiority with a Nexu, officers, and probe droids in my open groups. I deployed the Nexu on round 1.

The rebels focused all their efforts on slaughtering every enemy outside for the first half of the mission. It took 4 rounds for the first door to bust open, and 5 for the virus to trigger. By dancing around the E-Webs and abusing activation timings (since they have initiative), they forced me into 3 rounds in which I could do nothing meaningful.

When the virus hit, my AT-ST got one shot off before they scrambled into the building. The royal guards did less than 5 damage before dying and the E-Web brought Gideon to 9/10 damage before getting liquified by their focused efforts. Then Gideon healed. I hated Gideon.

I then had to fulfill this insane objective that required me to 1) Rush my reinforcements into the building from across the map 2) Wound at least 3 heroes since two of them can block all three terminals 3) Get multiple figures to multiple terminals alive, all within 3 rounds. I'm sorry, but this is simply not feasible. Why can I not simply deactivate the terminals whenever I want? Why do I have to come up with such a massive damage output before being allowed to interact with them? It's hard enough to get adjacent to them without getting destroyed.

Regardless, due to the timing, the rebels of course managed to get every token as well as 3 crates because they had nothing better to do while I struggled into the facility. I only wounded one hero and got another one close, with nowhere near enough time or manpower to reach any of the terminals. The AT-ST exploded the doors and shot a hero one more time around a corner but was otherwise irrelevant. Even with the Nexu's speed I couldn't get inside fast enough.

So, mission ends. The rebels come away with 2150 credits and I get 1 influence, for a total of 1 to spend. I draw my cards and...none of them are cheap enough. This means the rebels walk away with 2 grand of new gear as well as any new class cards, and my pittance is one 1-cost class card. I'm worried the scales are tipped beyond repair for the rest of the campaign, and I don't even know what I could've done differently outside of one poorly-timed deployment (a nexu that died before it could even take an action).


Aftermath was more tense but the Rebels still won with maximum rewards, and now they've won with just 50 credits shy of maximum rewards again, with mine at minimum. Can the pendulum swing the other way after such a defeat so early? How could I have played the mission better? I'm enjoying the game but this was an incredibly frustrating mission, especially since the results will affect every subsequent mission.
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Don't worry about it too much. It was just one mission (and not a very fun mission).

Some missions become easier and harder depending on so many things.

In our face-to-face first ever campaign the rebels didn't get a lot of credits.

In SWIA010 Fenn escaped becoming wounded (I think) twice, but I was still able to wound the rebels just before the end of the last round.
SWIA010 Generous Donations
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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Side missions tend to be a little less balanced than story missions sometimes, too, since they don't have a set place specifically within the campaign (that is, a specific side mission could just as easily be placed in the first side mission slot as the last).

Keep going, you should be fine. If anything, the Rebels should cherish the calm before the storm.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Also, losing Aftermath is good for you. The rebels will need all of their credits down the line.
 
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John Fanjoy
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Usually people complain about this mission from the Rebel perspective:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

either they rush in and activate the virus too early, and immediately lose two or even three terminals to nearby Imperial forces, OR they activate the virus too late, and don't have enough time to get all the credits even if they can keep all of the terminals active.

The AT-ST is mostly for show; if you could actually get that huge reinforcement wave close enough to engage, the fight would be a bit lopsided in the Imperial's favor.


A New Threat should be substantially in your favor, even with that huge credit payout for the rebels. If you still feel like you don't have a chance when playing that, there's probably something significant you're missing, either strategically or possibly with the rules. If you want a hint for the mission that will make the Rebels' lives even more difficult:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Choose the option that spawns a Nexu in the small 2x2 room on the east side of the map.
 
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Bertrand Furcas
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Re-reading the mission I'm worried you're, maybe, doing something wrong?
If it's your first secondary mission the heroes don't have that much power on them, if any, and you bring with you a LOT of Elites and reinforcements for free. It shouldn't be that hard to reinforce too if you bring cheap stuff like the droids and the officers are very useful in a mission where you need to move long distances.

Did you activate the reserves the same turn that they show on the map or waited for the round after?
Are you sure you're tracing line of sight the correct way and not making it too easy for the heroes to be out of sight?
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The AT-ST should easilly cover at least the objective in the room on top, it would be hard for the heroes to have someone not getting wounded even close to that terminal


Plus the heroes have a lot of credits but they still draw only from level 1 items, things won't be that unbalanced and you have to hope they'll spend a lot now and not saving up for stronger equipment!
 
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
I wouldn't say there's a lot of elites, just an E-Web really. And because it took them until round 5 to trigger the virus, I only had 2 rounds of double threat that I could actually use (deploying on round 8 is meaningless). Also, the only free deployment is worth 4 threat, which I spent on the Nexu.


I activated everything properly. It was the only real way to get decent attacks in because again, the way they played forced me to spend 3 rounds accomplishing nothing. I guess I just don't yet understand how to handle the rebels' initiative each round and what to do when I'm required to activate figures that would have to be in dangerous positions to make any kind of attack.

Line of sight was always correct because we were always checking it. This was a 4 hour mission.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The AT-ST barely had enough time to do its surprise attack, attack the doors, then get one more attack in before the end of the mission. 3 rounds in the final stage just isn't enough time to get anything done.
 
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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A four hour mission? Now I really am starting to wonder if something went wrong.
 
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None of the rules were played incorrectly, the rebels just spent a lot of time deciding what to do. I admit they optimized nearly everything and played really well, but I still feel like I didn't have much control over anything that happened.
 
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Nick T
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That is a strong group of rebels, but that early I would think you could delay them a bit getting into the main room.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Again, with it being so early, I would think setting up the RGs to protect the eEweb would make it very difficult to kill (+2 block right off the bat) and it could wreak some havoc.


Generous Donations is considered one of the more unpredictable missions. Due to the secret information, the rebels may inadvertently put themselves into a very strong or very weak position.
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
I didn't think about that ability stacking. That probably would've been better than rushing them to double-team the rebel who opened the door.

I would love to delay them, but they delayed themselves anyway by spending so much time attacking everything. So they eliminated every threat before they became threatened at the cost of neglecting the objective, and were rewarded for doing so.

The probe droid was killed in the first activation. I don't know why that thing is even there, there's no way it can survive.

The trandosians got one attack on the rebel who killed the droid only to die in the next two activations.

The nexu I deployed in Round 1 terrified them, so they moved to converge on it without being in range of the E-Web. I had it stand on blocking terrain to wait for them, but they still found a way in with Diala, who used strain moves, Fenn's movement skill card, and Gideon's command to attack it 3 times safely. The E-Web never had line of sight when it activated, which spelled death for him as well.

I made the mistake of deploying another nexu the next round, who died before it could do anything. Like I said, 3 rounds of doing nothing significant is deeply irritating.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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At least you learned to not deploy easy targets. Let the rebels spend resources to get to attack.
 
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Nick T
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sizesixteens wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I didn't think about that ability stacking. That probably would've been better than rushing them to double-team the rebel who opened the door.

I would love to delay them, but they delayed themselves anyway by spending so much time attacking everything. So they eliminated every threat before they became threatened at the cost of neglecting the objective, and were rewarded for doing so.

The probe droid was killed in the first activation. I don't know why that thing is even there, there's no way it can survive.

The trandosians got one attack on the rebel who killed the droid only to die in the next two activations.

The nexu I deployed in Round 1 terrified them, so they moved to converge on it without being in range of the E-Web. I had it stand on blocking terrain to wait for them, but they still found a way in with Diala, who used strain moves, Fenn's movement skill card, and Gideon's command to attack it 3 times safely. The E-Web never had line of sight when it activated, which spelled death for him as well.

I made the mistake of deploying another nexu the next round, who died before it could do anything. Like I said, 3 rounds of doing nothing significant is deeply irritating.


Just to clarify, the +2 block is from two separate abilities: the innate +1 that the eEweb has, and the sentinel ability of the RG (which can only be used once per instance, even if 2 RGs are adjacent).
 
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Bertrand Furcas
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
Well I said lot of elites and reinforcements, not just elites but whatever that's not the point.
Maybe you could consider using one or even two officers when you have to move long distances from spawn points with their Order ability.
My bad about the threat count, didn't remember the first secondary goes only with 2 threat level surprise. Even just the level 3 would've made such a big difference for you!


Probably this is one of those case where they've just been lucky drawing it so early.
Still a 4 hour game for a single mission sounds like a lot of time, maybe consider timing their decision making to a reasonable amount? I mean, they're on the battlefield, not sipping tea on a couch, taking decisions without considering EVERY SINGLE ONE ASPECT of the existence could be part of the fun.
 
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Rico P
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If they're taking that long (4 hours), impose a timer

I give my group 1 min to come to a decision (move/attack/whatever), and extra bonus minutes if it's at the beginning of the mission, a new round, or event triggers. 1min is actually a lot longer than you think you'd need and I'd estimate in about 90% of the time they've made their decision in less than 45sec

Just don't impose timers on actually resolving the combat. That's the most fun part in the game imo
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I honestly don't mind the length of time. We're all super thoughtful people by nature and are used to playing epic-length games. However, if the idea is that the rebels have an advantage if they're allowed more time to plan, I don't think anyone in our group would agree with that because it works both ways. I took a lot of time to think during my turns as well, it just naturally didn't take as long because I had no teammates to discuss things with.

Besides, I've never liked timers unless they're a part of the game. It adds another layer of stress for me and others that doesn't make the experience better. We plan for these nights accordingly because we know how long we need.
 
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Dean L
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You didn't spend three turns doing nothing, you delayed them for three turns, had you been able to spend a fourth turn "doing nothing" before the terminal was activated you may well have won. This mission is one of very few that rewards caution and punishes the Rebels for rushing. If you read other threads in it you will see complaints about how unfair it is from Rebels playing it later in the campaign who have already learned "focus on the objectives, not clearing the board", and see that tactic failing for once.

I'm convinced you'll be back next week telling us the Rebels are frustrated because the time limits are too short on the missions!

(One thing I'd maybe ask- you did read ahead in the mission guide? Because you know what's coming so you do want to stockpile some threat for when that terminal is activated).
 
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I did read ahead, but I wanted to continue to slow them down since I figured playing for time was my best chance. Even so, stalling for another turn wouldn't really result in much for me. They still would've gotten 1750 credits and I would've gotten 2 influence instead of 1. Still a very lopsided result and far from a victory for me.

Like others and myself have said, this mission seems like it lends itself to crushing one side or the other, with the victim having very little control over the outcome.
 
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I read your description of the mission and had a few thoughts. I have played the mission as imperial (subversive tactics) against a similar rebel team and in exactly the same mission slot. Obviously though I didn't see your game, so feel free to take them or leave them as you see fit.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

1. Experimental Arms. With technological superiority you have experimental arms. This is good to attach to trandoshans and royal guards to boost bleed/stun or on storm troopers (if you have them as an open group) to boost range.

2. Trandoshans. Due to relentless and scattergun it's tempting to run them forward to attack. This is often a mistake because you give away double attacks to the heroes. Ideal would be to make an attack from 3 spaces (for relentless) then retreat or hide and in this mission possibly drawing heroes into the E-web's line of fire. If you can manage two attacks per trandoshan you have twice as much chance of applying bleed and two lots of relentless. This is well worth the loss of the scattergun bonus damage, especially with EA signifcantly increasing your bleed chance. Sometimes even a double move is better than an attack which leaves your figure open to easy defeat.

3. Royal Guards. Already mentioned, I'd consider experimental arms if it's available when you deploy them.

4. Storm Troopers. Experimental arms effectively boosts their minimum range to 5. This makes it very easy to shoot and retreat. Range is good because it either prevents the rebels double attacking because they have to move, or costs them strain to get into position, or worst case "merely" reduces their damage e.g. due to spending a surge on accuracy instead of damage.

I assume either Fenn or Mak got a tier 1 gun which Gideon can also capitalize on, but even so, STs with EA will out-range them and give you an advantage.

5. If Mak has disengage, try and trick him into disengaging "backwards." Every square he moves away from the objective is the equivalent of you doing 1 damage on him. Once he disengages, just attack someone else.

6. The E-Web's benefit is in the threat of it shooting. If it forces heroes to spend movement points/strain running to cover or staying out of its LoS, or attacking the e-web instead of another target, then that's still worth something to you. Obviously if it gets to shoot that's best, but it's not always within your control. But you can plan around the threat of it shooting and take actually getting to shoot just as a bonus.

7. The reinforcements to an extent are just there for show and build tension. But you can get some of them inside the base in time to be useful with the help of officers. There are many missions like this where you have to plan around the reinforcement events. E.g. Under Siege.

8. Hard to do in a 2 threat mission, but later on you can use cheap units like officers, probe droids, or "hidden" single stormtroopers to give you more deployment groups on the board so that you can have control of activation timing.


Not much anyone can do about the way the objective works in this mission causing a swing toward one side or the other but tactics can still help minimize the swing.
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Thanks for the detailed response I chalked this mission up to some rotten luck and a few fairly bad errors on my part. We're all still learning this game. We just finished "A New Threat" the other day and I felt significantly more relevant and capable, partly because I've learned a few things but also because it seems like a much better designed mission.

The rebels still won, but I was satisfied with the game because I felt like they earned the win rather than stumbling upon it.
 
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Ok, an update on this campaign. To put it bluntly, things are not getting better. We've finished "Old Friends" and then "Imperial Hospitality", so spoilers for those missions will follow. Some highlights to point out:

- I have lost every single mission. Because of this, the rebels were getting into their 4XP cards by the 4th mission, and I just now got my first 3XP card at the end of the 5th. I've had to pass on buying Agenda cards because I simply didn't have enough, or the cards I could afford seemed nearly useless to me against all their firepower. I've bought a total of 3 Agenda cards in 5 missions, and one of them expired with little benefit (Imperial Officer).

- Both of these missions require the rebels to move allies to escape. My rebel opponents have three different ways to move friendly figures: Gideon's Command (which they've upgraded to be used twice per action), Diala's Force Throw, and Fenn's Tactical Movement. These abilities were justifiably abused and I couldn't keep up.

- I bought the Agenda card "High-Value Target", so I try very hard to wound at least 1 hero, but doing even that is darn well near impossible now. Mak requires me to swarm him, Fenn has 15 health, and Diala's white die burned me 5 times in one mission because she can reroll it. So I go for Gideon, and even when I devote 3 full rounds of deployments to attack him exclusively, he's able to outpace my damage by double-resting every turn. It took 20 damage to wound a 10-health character, and that's infuriating.

- Because the rebels have so much phenomenal gear from maximum credits every mission (including generous donations) and a swath of XP, and the fact that these particular players are extremely devoted to killing everything I have, my deployments simply cannot survive. I've tried playing offensively, defensively, and everything in between, but nothing is working. They were able to kill an elite E-Webb in a single activation because half of them can generate three attacks.

So now my question is, do these missions ever get any more favored for the imperials? This is the third story mission in a row I've lost, on top of two side missions, so if both sides are equally weighted for the rest of the campaign, there's simply no hope for me. These last couple missions have proven that I have no control over the results, no real variety of options because tactics have now become irrelevant, and no resource income to climb the mountain that's been building.
 
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If it's any consolation, I think it's fair to say that things should eventually even out as the more successes either side gets, they eventually reach a point of diminishing returns. For instance, even if the Rebels got all of their XP cards, they assuredly could not use them all each activation.

That's not to say that the Rebels have necessarily peaked- just that the abilities curve seems to start pretty steep, even out, and perhaps later jump up a little again. Keep powering on.

There are a lot of Imperial strategy threads here and on the FFG forums. I'd suggest checking them out, if you feel that your strategy is lacking.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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If the rebels win the campaign, they are more receptive to playing again. I know it won't console you much, but try to keep learning even when you lose. See which abilities in the class cards worked and which did not, and how you could work around the rebel abilities (stunned is always good).

When the attacks of the rebels become more powerful, switch to using cheap units. It still takes the rebels an attack action to defeat each of them.

Also keep reading the forums and maybe the play by forum campaigns to learn from them. (I'm down 1 to 5 in Red Snow, White Troopers - SWIA032 - Finished 2017-02-14, sometimes you just can't seem to win.)

 
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Joe
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Like Pasi said, cheap units are actually good again later in the campaign. If there is a time limit think of your success not in wounding the heroes, but in slowing them down. If they spend an action to kill a unit of yours, that can be a good thing for the IP. Just don't try and block the way by filling up the corridor. Fenn and Diala (if built the right way) would obliterate them. Keep your units spaced out as needed so they can't get multiple kills from one action.
 
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John Fanjoy
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sizesixteens wrote:
- I have lost every single mission. Because of this, the rebels were getting into their 4XP cards by the 4th mission, and I just now got my first 3XP card at the end of the 5th. I've had to pass on buying Agenda cards because I simply didn't have enough, or the cards I could afford seemed nearly useless to me against all their firepower. I've bought a total of 3 Agenda cards in 5 missions, and one of them expired with little benefit (Imperial Officer).


You may want to verify that you've awarded yourself the correct amount of xp: IIRC there is only one spot in the campaign where the XP rewards are unequal, or maybe two. Certainly for side missions, it should always be 1 XP for all players. It's only on story missions where the XP rewards are occasionally unequal (e.g. A New Threat), but usually those are just 1 XP for all players as well.

edit: Looks like I was misremembering; every story mission in the core campaign has the potential for awarding unequal xp. Oops!
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