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Subject: Potential sources for objective cards rss

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Robert
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How to get objective cards:
1) initial card
2) up to three cards from city combinations (1+4, but also -3 points; 6+8, 8+10)
3) neutral building 'C'
4) private building '6b'

Observations:
If a delivery to Topeka (1) is unavoidable, the objective card can at least (over-)compensate the loss of three points.
In order to end the game with 6 objective cards (which I find a reasonable goal), you need at least two of them from a building. I've yet to play with '6b', so my only such source so far is neutral building 'C'. Try to time your visits to that building so that you have an extra engineer or more and thus get more benefit.
An objective from private building '6b' can be played right after you take it, i.e. you can get the immediate action right away. Keep this in mind when picking the objective card so that the immediate action helps your current situation.
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Aventura
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More objective cards isn't better if you can't fulfill them. In my first game we took objective cards aggressively as actions and then kicked ourselves when we were forced to take more (that we had little hope of fulfilling) as part of our delivery actions. Those unwanted cards clog up your hand until you can find a way to discard them- not the most difficult thing in the world but still an inconvenience.

Based on my limited experience it seems six objective cards would be very hard to fulfill, but maybe with better play it's as you say reasonable. The thing is though that those objective cards can become distractions, forcing you into suboptimal actions. Are the VP rewards from objectives really that great to justify the investment, risk and distraction? Ostensibly doesn't seem so.
 
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Robert
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verandi wrote:
More objective cards isn't better if you can't fulfill them.
Obviously!

verandi wrote:
Based on my limited experience it seems six objective cards would be very hard to fulfill, but maybe with better play it's as you say reasonable. The thing is though that those objective cards can become distractions, forcing you into suboptimal actions. Are the VP rewards from objectives really that great to justify the investment, risk and distraction? Ostensibly doesn't seem so.
I won't claim huge experience either, but what limited experience I have, six objectives are feasible to fulfill without going out of your way.

Of course this has to do with my strategy when, whether and which to take:
- early game: take one or two which are easy anyway (require 1 or 2 buildings, 1 or 2 disks moved to the cities/stations, a tipi you have anyway)
- mid game: take only ones which you've (almost) completed
These objective cards I play out when they come up in my hand - the immediate action usually is quite helpful too.

In late game/on my last trip I take whatever objective card may still fit since it's unlikely that the game goes on long enough for them ot wind up in my hand - they'll probably still be in my discard pile when the game ends. And if I draw them, then I only play them if it's safe.

Of course the visible objective cards may all be quite bad for you (e.g. you already have an objective for which you need a green tipi, and all available objective cards require even more green tipis, while you have only blue tipis). But then again you don't need to go to building 'C' if the selection is bad, so this can only inconvenience you if a) the objective card comes from a city delivery and b) taking it is indeed mandatory in this case.
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Sebastian
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I wouldn't overvalue objective cards. While they are nice extra points when they come along right, or you pick them up early and can plan accordingly they also clutter up your hand and eat up actions you need to get them that could benefit your otherwise.

An objective that is unfulfilled is best case only a wasted action.
 
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Robert
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TermiGator wrote:
I wouldn't overvalue objective cards.
That sounds like a sophisticated way to say "Don't make bad moves." . Of course you shouldn't "overvalue" anything, because by definition giving something more value than it has is a bad idea.

TermiGator wrote:
An objective that is unfulfilled is best case only a wasted action.
Agreed: "Don't do something obviously stupid."

So please tell us how many fulfilled objective cards you consider minimum/desirable/exaggerated. E.g. do you think you can win with just the initial objective card? With the two or three extra ones you're likely to get anyway from city deliveries?
 
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Sebastian
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I have no feeling yet if few or many objectives are a good thing. I only think they are quite not as strong as in other games because they don't bring THAT many points to the final score.

What I can see, is that there are quite a mass of downsides (in contrast to other games where you often automatically get points once objectives are fulfilled):
- Taking objective cost (part of) an action or is a reward (where you miss other rewards in place).
- Objectives go in your draw pile and might be in your hand at a bad moment
- Objectives score negative points when played but unfulfilled
- You can only choose from 4 random objectives

Navigating around all this for 3-5 points is quite some work...

The way the objectives are designed I think they are "some more points to grab in the right moment" rather than an "own strategy".
 
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Robert
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TermiGator wrote:
The way the objectives are designed I think they are "some more points to grab in the right moment" rather than an "own strategy".
Full ACK - you'd rather not approach this as in "take and fulfill as many objective cards as possible", but rather as in "take as many objective cards as you can which you've already fulfilled (or know to fulfill following your remaining goals)".

Keep in mind that playing out objective cards does give you some benefits, and the benefits are mostly up to par or better than one neutral building action (2 resp. 3 train steps, double auxiliary action, triple card change, up to three no-pay steps, 2 dollars). The one moment when you'd rather not want to draw an objective card is at the end of your turn when your next turn's move will be to KC.
 
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Marvin Hsiao
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This is an interesting angle that I have not thought about. It is true if you on the outset decide you want to take objective cards, 6 is quite achievable provided you have a reasonably "diversified portfolio". In our game one person done 5 without even trying. So getting some early objective cards that suits you is not a bad idea.

I do wonder about Topeka vs Kansas City in early game though. The early boost of 6 coins does put you in double hiring, cow buying, level 2 building goodness very early on. Might be better option?
 
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