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Glen Drover's Empires: Galactic Rebellion» Forums » Variants

Subject: Some changes after first play rss

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Sander Kouwenhoven
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Yesterday we played our first game, and honestly, it wasn't a great experience. I am a big fan of Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery, this game has some improvements over its predecessor, but also introduces quite a lot of problems. As noted by other reviewers, the endgame is just gulpgulp For me the time it takes wasn't the main issue, but the randomness it introduces was. I hate the mechanic where a strong player holding the majority on a planet can defeat the sentinels and then end up with no points as he's now no longer in the majority. Blegh!!

However, as it is a good game, I propose some fixes that we will try in our next game:

1. No more final war! That's right, skip this! Instead, Sentinels are worth 2 points when you kill them during the normal rounds. They also participate in determining majorities so possibly nobody gets the points for controlling a planet if there are a lot of sentinels on that planet.

We also didn't like how you can block off an entire planet with the ships, this felt weird and too powerful. For this I propose the following:

2. The capital ships (Rebel and Imperial) do not block movement anymore. Instead, each turn the first worker that is sent to such a planet per player is lost.

Lastly, I miss the bidding part for the ships (as in Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery) so here I propose the following change:

3. The Covert Agenda box order of resolving is determined by how many workers (count relevant specialists as X2) with ties determined by turn order. When you resolve an Agenda, All workers must be removed from this box.


edit: Changed link to proper Age of Discovery game
 
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Galen
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1. Interesting change, I like it. How often would the sentinels "won" the planet in your game if this rule was implemented?

2. I'm not sure this change is a good as your other ideas. What if there was a mechanic that made moving the ships easier and more strategic?

3. The covert mission box, now plays just like merchant shipping box from E:AoD. I really like this change. the merchant shipping box lead to some of the most tense moments in E:AoD.
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Lawrence Myers
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Still awaiting my KS copy to arrive, must be nice to be one of the 6% 20% (edit: if your an US backers). This is interesting idea, instead of a Galactic War at the end game its just a Galactic occupation one has to win. I will try the first idea, although I am not sold on the second ideas yet. I can't say until I have a chance to play. Your third idea seems better balanced for covert mission, switching priority putting more workers in the Covert box rather than going for initiative order (which makes more sense being turn order does not change until the next turn after the covert mission that was taken is refreshed).
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Sander Kouwenhoven
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1. Not that much, but for instance I was able during our last game to send just 1 worker to a planet with 4 sentinels. It was blocked by my Rebel fleet, I held it for 2 epochs, so that worker scored 12 points...

2. Making the ships move easier and more strategic would work, I don't know how to go about that. Maybe a second auction from the Senate box to move the Rebel ship?

Glad you liked it! Let me know when you've played with these changes

I'm not part of the 6%, my friend is Weird that we could get the game earlier in the Netherlands than the US..
 
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Eagle & Gryphon Games
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Thanks for offering these variants. We fully realize the final war is not for everyone, but we expect the American game audience in general to enjoy the tense back and forth with the final war. We will try these variants you worked out and report back.
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Frederick Soued
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WebKoala wrote:
1. Not that much, but for instance I was able during our last game to send just 1 worker to a planet with 4 sentinels. It was blocked by my Rebel fleet, I held it for 2 epochs, so that worker scored 12 points...

2. Making the ships move easier and more strategic would work, I don't know how to go about that. Maybe a second auction from the Senate box to move the Rebel ship?

Glad you liked it! Let me know when you've played with these changes

I'm not part of the 6%, my friend is Weird that we could get the game earlier in the Netherlands than the US..


To attempt to clarify confusion, we had no problem with the EU shipment of EGR, so it should be the case that 100% of EU Backers have their game -- at least it is true that 100% have been shipped out I am quite sure.
BUT we had major shipping and other damage to the outer boxes of EGR that came to the US. We were able to send out about 20% of the games to the US Backers. We think that Canada Backers will get their games soon, if you have not done so already. You might check in with Bosco at BGB on the status of your game if you are in Canada. Asian shipments are on hold as they too had box damage. And finally, the Australian shipper (Aetherworks) is checking for box damage and will send us a report soon.

The latest Kickstarter Update might have more info for you, and will be a source of more info in the future as well.

The factory is currently printing up new boxes to replace the damaged ones. We do not yet have an estimated date of when those new boxes will make it to Kentucky where the work will be done to change over the contents and get the games (finally) shipped out to US Backers.

Hope this helps clear things up. Rick for Eagle-Gryphon Games
 
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steve randall
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ricks wrote:
WebKoala wrote:
1. Not that much, but for instance I was able during our last game to send just 1 worker to a planet with 4 sentinels. It was blocked by my Rebel fleet, I held it for 2 epochs, so that worker scored 12 points...

2. Making the ships move easier and more strategic would work, I don't know how to go about that. Maybe a second auction from the Senate box to move the Rebel ship?

Glad you liked it! Let me know when you've played with these changes

I'm not part of the 6%, my friend is Weird that we could get the game earlier in the Netherlands than the US..


To attempt to clarify confusion, we had no problem with the EU shipment of EGR, so it should be the case that 100% of EU Backers have their game -- at least it is true that 100% have been shipped out I am quite sure.
BUT we had major shipping and other damage to the outer boxes of EGR that came to the US. We were able to send out about 20% of the games to the US Backers. We think that Canada Backers will get their games soon, if you have not done so already. You might check in with Bosco at BGB on the status of your game if you are in Canada. Asian shipments are on hold as they too had box damage. And finally, the Australian shipper (Aetherworks) is checking for box damage and will send us a report soon.

The latest Kickstarter Update might have more info for you, and will be a source of more info in the future as well.

The factory is currently printing up new boxes to replace the damaged ones. We do not yet have an estimated date of when those new boxes will make it to Kentucky where the work will be done to change over the contents and get the games (finally) shipped out to US Backers.

Hope this helps clear things up. Rick for Eagle-Gryphon Games


Game not yet recieved in the UK - fingers crosses it arrives in next couple of days as game night this friday (followed by game day Saturday!)
 
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Galen
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Quote:
Thanks for offering these variants. We fully realize the final war is not for everyone, but we expect the American game audience in general to enjoy the tense back and forth with the final war. We will try these variants you worked out and report back


Is it back and forth though? It's sounds like people are concerned that the lead player is meat shield for 2nd place. That's not back and forth that's just counter-intuitive.
 
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Matt Smith
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galeninjapan wrote:

Quote:
Thanks for offering these variants. We fully realize the final war is not for everyone, but we expect the American game audience in general to enjoy the tense back and forth with the final war. We will try these variants you worked out and report back


Is it back and forth though? It's sounds like people are concerned that the lead player is meat shield for 2nd place. That's not back and forth that's just counter-intuitive.

From a game play perspective, new players must be told that if they pursue majority control on a planet, and there are Sentinels there at the start of the GW, there is a chance they will lose their majority control position. They can choose to try to mitigate this risk, or just invest enough actions to retain majority control through the first two epochs and don't worry about trying to defeat the Sentinels or score in epoch 3. If they want to try to retain majority control after the GW, they'll need to invest actions to mitigate the risk by: manipulating the Sentinels via the Galactic Senate, increasing their Military Science, attacking the Sentinels via Warfare, and placing Troopers/Heroes on the planet as defenders. Deciding how many actions to invest in preparing for the GW (to score epoch 3 points from planets) vs. spending those actions getting points elsewhere (Income, Tech, Covert Missions, Galactic Senate) is a big part of this new game. The ability to get points from the planets in epoch 3 is dependent on the outcome of the GW, so players must constantly assess their odds for success in the GW, and use that information to decide which actions to take.

For example, in the current "learning" game I'm playing (where I play multiple factions and try different strategies), the blue faction initially focused on maintaining control of a 9/5 VP planet that started with 4 Sentinels. He had planned to attack the Sentinels on that planet throughout the game in an attempt to eliminate them and also score the 9 points for majority control in epoch 3. But after another faction added 2 more Sentinels there via the Senate, the blue faction changed his strategy. He invested just enough actions on the 9/5 planet to maintain majority control through the first 2 epochs, while attacking Sentinels on a 6/2 VP planet where he also had majority control. He was able to get 18 points (epochs 1+2) from the 9/5 planet with only 5-6 guys on the planet. That's a really good investment. And by refocusing his Warfare actions against the Sentinels on the 6/2 planet, he was able to eliminate enough Sentinels to guarantee his 6 points there in epoch 3. This is better than even the 5 points he would have scored on the 9/5 planet if he survived the Sentinels but was reduced to second place. He also used the knowledge that he had a larger majority lead on the 6/2 planet, so could afford to invest in the GW there to try to survive. By shifting his GW-prep actions to a planet where he had a better chance to stay in control, he was able to maximize his points/action. Of course, he also looked at which players would potentially benefit by him "giving up" on fighting the Sentinels on the 9/5 planet. But when it comes to preparing for the GW, sometimes you have to pick your battles.

So, what I'm trying to convey is you have think differently in this game vs. Age of Discovery. It's not about a linear spamming of the planets to get majority points in all three epochs. It's about wisely investing your actions to maximize your planetary influence points in epochs 1 and 2, while knowing the GW is coming and what your odds of success are against the Sentinels, considering:
- The planets you chose to influence
- Actions spent to increase your Military Science
- Actions spent on Warfare against the Sentinels
- Actions spent to get Troopers/Heroes onto the planets
- Actions spent at the Senate to move/remove Sentinels

As long as players know how the GW works before starting the game, they can assess the relative value of taking actions to prepare to defend their position on the planets to score epoch 3 planet points, versus spending those same actions to score points from Income, Tech, Covert Missions and Galactic Senate and not bother with trying to score epoch 3 planet points. All the options are there; the choice is yours. Just don't expect to spend minimal to no actions preparing for the GW, then expect to retain your majority control of the planets after the GW is resolved. That would be like sticking your head in the sand and hoping the GW goes your way. (Hint: if you don't prepare, you'll get beat down if you're in control of a planet with multiple Sentinels.) robotrobot
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