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Subject: Stagnation - Can we solve the problem? rss

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Andre
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/politics/elections-congress-ma...

The article explains the real issue of why nothing meaningful gets done in American politics, that might help the average U.S. citizen. Stagnation occurs, in general, when the majority in Congress is not the same party as the President. The Dems may have an advantage if they mange to soak some seats in Congress from the Republicans, but apparently that will only be a fun ride until 2018, when, if you believe the article, the Republicans will have it easy.

Although I cannot recommend a way to do it, since this is the American democratic process at work, would it not be to this country's advantage to let a President and Congress have their way for four years, and see what happens with the country? And if they do not do well, bring in the next team to try? Although the founding fathers intended our tripartite system to offer checks against the other two bodies of government, it is my belief that this same principle is no longer allowing this country to be governed effectively. What are your thoughts, and ideas on how to eliminate the stalemate and staganation in government, that is the case when President and Congress collide (and Congress collides with itself)?
 
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I think a large part of it is that for years, Democrats and Republicans argued over fine details but have had no meaningful differences in basic policies while the talking heads play up what differences remain and try to make them meaningful.

Which party opposes immigration which is strictly speaking illegal under current US federal law? Both. If you think those laws are far too sweeping and borders should be much more open, then neither party represents you.

Which party opposes the war on drugs? Neither.
What about the war on terror? Neither.
Which one will close Gitmo and repeal the Patriot Act? Neither.

--and so on and so on
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Angelus Seniores
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stagnation is generally part of the democratic system, not by intent but because of the people that work the system to their own benefit.

it would be better to do away with parties and instead let each individual speak for himself.
allow voting for people for a position rather than let parties choose their own candidates.

often parties take a certain position, not for the value of that position for society, but for the possible advantage they themselves might gain from it.
leaving debates open to each individual instead of voting in accordance to the party's position should open up this type of stagnation.

people should vote to the betterment of society, not their personal gain, then it would be perfectly acceptable to vote for a new project of the ruling persons even if you're in the non-ruling box.
 
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jeremy cobert
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Dear god, I love stagnation, I love grid lock. dont change a thing.
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Xuzu Horror
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Stagnation is bad for the nation as it both stops necessary tasks from being completed plus it involves spending lots of money to get much less done.

But, that said, your suggestion would make one branch of government too powerful. It would be wasteful in the other direction. One group enters and creates new systems; the next destroys them and perhaps adds their own. Then it repeats.

What we need is for voters to vote for people willing to compromise for the good of the nation.

When the American people want something to get resolved, but one side or the other won't bring it up because they want to reform it their way without compromising, that's just wasteful.

There are plenty of issues that most Americans want resolved. Focus on those. And, start with ones that both sides agree on without tying it to other issues unless needed as a compromise.

Some great work has been done in mixed congresses. They have to put nation over party and compromise though.
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J.D. Hall
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Term limits.

Reduction of lavish salary/benefits.

Elimination of ability to keep unspent "campaign donations" for personal use.

Banning ALL people drawing a federal paycheck at a certain level (GS-15 perhaps?) or higher from working for a lobbying/governmental consulting firm for a period of 5 years.

Require Congress to meet at least four days a week for 45 weeks a year. And require Congress to meet in general session (all members attending) for at least half a day on each of those four days.

Finally, and most importantly, GET EVERY ELIGIBLE CITIZEN to vote.

(All this should apply to the chief executive, cabinet officers, and members of Congress)
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Chris
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Nothing gets done because the system is setup to benefit the people in power and their corporate overlords. They don't care about making things better for the regular people. If all Dems get elected giving them the Presidency and a super majority in the house and senate all that will happen is corporations friendly to Dems will get more corporate handouts as opposed to one friendly to Repubs. However, most of the big players are smart and donate to both.

The only difference between the parties is what lies they tell to get elected.
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casey r lowe
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bjlillo wrote:
Stagnation in government is a wonderful thing. The less these idiots get to screw up, the better off we all are.

such spoke ancient roman bj before getting clubbed to death by a visigoth
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Les Marshall
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abadolato01 wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/politics/elections-congress-ma...

The article explains the real issue of why nothing meaningful gets done in American politics, that might help the average U.S. citizen. Stagnation occurs, in general, when the majority in Congress is not the same party as the President. The Dems may have an advantage if they mange to soak some seats in Congress from the Republicans, but apparently that will only be a fun ride until 2018, when, if you believe the article, the Republicans will have it easy.

Although I cannot recommend a way to do it, since this is the American democratic process at work, would it not be to this country's advantage to let a President and Congress have their way for four years, and see what happens with the country? And if they do not do well, bring in the next team to try? Although the founding fathers intended our tripartite system to offer checks against the other two bodies of government, it is my belief that this same principle is no longer allowing this country to be governed effectively. What are your thoughts, and ideas on how to eliminate the stalemate and staganation in government, that is the case when President and Congress collide (and Congress collides with itself)?


All this article really says is that Democrats are likely to pick up the White House and Senate in 2016 while perhaps losing the Senate again in 2018. The underlying assumption is that these periodic turnovers of the congressional houses, the White House and the Supreme Court prevent "anything" from being done.

I disagree. For more than 200 years, with one exception, we've have peaceful transitions of political power between parties and officeholders. We've built the most economically and militarily powerful nation currently on the planet with arguably the highest living standard. We are the preeminent maritime power, have been to the moon and have developed a robust technological presence in near earth orbit.

Stagnation? Maybe in an age where we are tethered to portable communications/calculating devices and so can demand instant access to real time information, the pace of the world seems sluggish. The reality is that real change in the world around us is best achieved incrementally. Massive and sudden change is disruptive. We have a government designed to reflect our ever changing and conflicting desires, anxieties, and needs in an imperfect cauldron of political conflict.

We are so short sighted that every problem and hiccup is blamed on the party or individual currently in power while forgetting about the decades of decisions from the past that are only bearing fruit now. Much of the difficulty in the Middle East and/or Africa is still connected to the colonial misrule of the 17th-19th centuries and the economic exploitation that came with the rise of oil as a crucial commodity for the industrial world. The financial collapse of 2007-2008 and our anxiety about current and future stability has a great deal to do with the emergence on financial manipulation as a means of creating wealth over and above adding value to raw materials. The ultimate results of the Bush and Obama presidencies will be decades yet in the unfolding and the current "gridlock", while a real phenomena is perhaps a little overstated as dynamic opposition appears to have been intended from the start.

Do we have issues? Sure. We need to work on them and get over the hand wringing a bit.

whac3 wrote:
I think a large part of it is that for years, Democrats and Republicans argued over fine details but have had no meaningful differences in basic policies while the talking heads play up what differences remain and try to make them meaningful.

Which party opposes immigration which is strictly speaking illegal under current US federal law? Both. If you think those laws are far too sweeping and borders should be much more open, then neither party represents you.

Which party opposes the war on drugs? Neither.
What about the war on terror? Neither.
Which one will close Gitmo and repeal the Patriot Act? Neither.

--and so on and so on


Got to disagree in part. There are real differences. However, approaching those differences doesn't require a 100% unbudging position of opposition.

The War on Drugs, largely a creation of the 1980's Reagan republican era (of which I was one) has proven ineffective. To say that both parties are not in opposition is not entirely accurate. The Republicans (again of which I was one) pursued this course vigorously including mandatory minimum sentences, private prisons, civil seizures, military assisted interdiction and so on essentially pursuing a deterrence/punishment model. Democrats tried to blunt this approach preferring a treatment/economic model meant to attack demand. Both approaches had flaws and sometimes compromises of principle were made on the alter of prevailing public opinion. The more libertarian wing of the Republicans seem to be coming around to viewing the main policy as a failure and embracing more legalization. However, there are very good reasons for both parties to attempt measures which diminish drug use in general and the more corrosive ones in all circumstances.

The War on Terror is a bit too nebulous of a phrase to use in this context. Are you suggesting that one party should support terror while the other opposes? Should one party accept use of military power while the other support merely police power? There are differences in the priorities that each party assigns. You mention Gitmo as though this was a point of agreement between Republicans and Democrats. There has been a bitter struggle over the fate of the detainees their with grave differences between Obama and members of congress. The Patriot Act while still in existence does not maintain its original form. It has been amended as part of the oppositional work of the House and Senate.

You didn't mention the economy at all. The Republicans are still hammering away at supply side solutions of lowering taxes and stripping away regulations while the Democrats are pushing demand side reforms like education funding and minimum wages. The Clinton arm of the Democrats seem to have embraced what was once Reagan era trade liberalization while the Tea Party/Trump wing of Republicans are now courting the trade protection mantra once the province of the union dominated democrats.

On social issues, the democratic party and republican party remain locked in an intransigent struggle over abortion rights while the Republicans are vowing to roll back the recently gained martial rights of homosexual people.

You'd be entirely correct to conclude that recent Democratic presidents have governed in a more centrist fashion (just as many of the Republican presidents have) however, that neglects the more highly partisan activity in congress.
 
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Steven Woodcock
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abadolato01 wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/politics/elections-congress-ma...

The article explains the real issue of why nothing meaningful gets done in American politics, that might help the average U.S. citizen. Stagnation occurs, in general, when the majority in Congress is not the same party as the President. The Dems may have an advantage if they mange to soak some seats in Congress from the Republicans, but apparently that will only be a fun ride until 2018, when, if you believe the article, the Republicans will have it easy.

Although I cannot recommend a way to do it, since this is the American democratic process at work, would it not be to this country's advantage to let a President and Congress have their way for four years, and see what happens with the country? And if they do not do well, bring in the next team to try? Although the founding fathers intended our tripartite system to offer checks against the other two bodies of government, it is my belief that this same principle is no longer allowing this country to be governed effectively. What are your thoughts, and ideas on how to eliminate the stalemate and staganation in government, that is the case when President and Congress collide (and Congress collides with itself)?


No...that's exactly not the way the nation is supposed to work.

There are supposed to be competing interests, competing goals, groups working at cross purposes. The Federal government is supposed to be slow and cumbersome and inefficient, because it's not supposed to be a major part of anybody's life. That's how the Founders designed it. In this bit they did a pretty good job, only left out a few key points I'll have them rectify once I get my time machine up and running.

I kinda like it myself.....the Federal government gets dangerous when it gets fast. Slow with lots and lots of questions and checking and delays and back-tracking is perfect.



Ferret
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Steven Woodcock
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bjlillo wrote:
Stagnation in government is a wonderful thing. The less these idiots get to screw up, the better off we all are.


An excellent way to sum it up sir...have a cookie!


Ferret
 
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whac3 wrote:
I think a large part of it is that for years, Democrats and Republicans argued over fine details but have had no meaningful differences in basic policies while the talking heads play up what differences remain and try to make them meaningful.

Which party opposes immigration which is strictly speaking illegal under current US federal law? Both. If you think those laws are far too sweeping and borders should be much more open, then neither party represents you.

Which party opposes the war on drugs? Neither.
What about the war on terror? Neither.
Which one will close Gitmo and repeal the Patriot Act? Neither.

--and so on and so on


Indeed.

This is why I'm voting third party for a candidate who espouses a lot of policies I strongly disagree with -- as it stands, nothing will change, and I'd rather things changed badly while disrupting our corrupt power structure.
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James King
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Stagnation Is Caused By Obstructionism


abadolato01 wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/politics/elections-congress-ma...

The article explains the real issue of why nothing meaningful gets done in American politics, that might help the average U.S. citizen. Stagnation occurs, in general, when the majority in Congress is not the same party as the President. The Dems may have an advantage if they mange to soak some seats in Congress from the Republicans, but apparently that will only be a fun ride until 2018, when, if you believe the article, the Republicans will have it easy.

Although I cannot recommend a way to do it, since this is the American democratic process at work, would it not be to this country's advantage to let a President and Congress have their way for four years, and see what happens with the country? And if they do not do well, bring in the next team to try? Although the founding fathers intended our tripartite system to offer checks against the other two bodies of government, it is my belief that this same principle is no longer allowing this country to be governed effectively. What are your thoughts, and ideas on how to eliminate the stalemate and staganation in government, that is the case when President and Congress collide (and Congress collides with itself)?

No, you're just advocating obstructionism under a different name. In essence, you're asserting a seemingly grand distinction where there is no meaningful difference. Your so-called "solution" would only reward obstructionism by indulging and enabling it to the ultimate degree.

The January 20, 2009 cabal of Republicans who met to plot their willful partisan obstructionism strategy is already well known and documented.

The only answer is for obstructionists to cease and desist from engaging in further senselessly partisan obstructionism.

























 
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Andre
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I can only speak for myself, and in truth, only the bad things that have come out of Congress seem to make the news (corruption, wsteful spending, etc...), but in earnest, I cannot point to one piece of legislation that has helped me with regard to the betterment of my condition. Not that I track all the legislation that Congress might pass, but then again, I suspect I am like most Americans, they don't either. The wait and see how their lives are affected over the course of a Presidential term, and decide if they are then better off, or worse off, than they were 4 years ago. The delay of a decision on Obama's Supreme Court pick is a typical example of Congress not performing their function. Congress has a very unfavorable rating with the American people, and that is no coincidence, that is the case because most Americans do not believe that they ae doing anything to improve their lot. Minimalists might say that is not the governments job, but, at least in my opinion, most Americans do not see it that way. And it would also be my guess that most Americans do not visualize that changing any time soon. A bit fatalistic? Yes. A reasonable attitude given current stagnation? Yes.
 
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Scott Russell
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I love divided government, if that was a choice on the ballot, I'd check it most times.
 
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Oliver Dienz
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Ferretman wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/politics/elections-congress-ma...

The article explains the real issue of why nothing meaningful gets done in American politics, that might help the average U.S. citizen. Stagnation occurs, in general, when the majority in Congress is not the same party as the President. The Dems may have an advantage if they mange to soak some seats in Congress from the Republicans, but apparently that will only be a fun ride until 2018, when, if you believe the article, the Republicans will have it easy.

Although I cannot recommend a way to do it, since this is the American democratic process at work, would it not be to this country's advantage to let a President and Congress have their way for four years, and see what happens with the country? And if they do not do well, bring in the next team to try? Although the founding fathers intended our tripartite system to offer checks against the other two bodies of government, it is my belief that this same principle is no longer allowing this country to be governed effectively. What are your thoughts, and ideas on how to eliminate the stalemate and staganation in government, that is the case when President and Congress collide (and Congress collides with itself)?


No...that's exactly not the way the nation is supposed to work.

There are supposed to be competing interests, competing goals, groups working at cross purposes. The Federal government is supposed to be slow and cumbersome and inefficient, because it's not supposed to be a major part of anybody's life. That's how the Founders designed it. In this bit they did a pretty good job, only left out a few key points I'll have them rectify once I get my time machine up and running.

I kinda like it myself.....the Federal government gets dangerous when it gets fast. Slow with lots and lots of questions and checking and delays and back-tracking is perfect.
Ferret


I guess that makes your ideal family one which incessantly argues about the best way to drive to the grocery store with the result that they are not going to move at all.
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Ferretman wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Stagnation in government is a wonderful thing. The less these idiots get to screw up, the better off we all are.


An excellent way to sum it up sir...have a cookie!


Ferret


Except for when the essential thimgs also fail to get done amd society breaks down , like road and rail infrastructure to move goods\food etc.


Ah never mind it's only the rural backwaters that won't be able to affords to ship stuff. Nobody gives a shit about them anyways, They can always build their own railways and roads and bridges or move to a city.


 
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Chris
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growlley wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Stagnation in government is a wonderful thing. The less these idiots get to screw up, the better off we all are.


An excellent way to sum it up sir...have a cookie!


Ferret


Except for when the essential thimgs also fail to get done amd society breaks down , like road and rail infrastructure to move goods\food etc.


Ah never mind it's only the rural backwaters that won't be able to affords to ship stuff. Nobody gives a shit about them anyways, They can always build their own railways and roads and bridges or move to a city.




Oh wow, there's some hyperbole. Fucking road construction is always happening - no chance that scenario is ever going to happen.
 
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hyperbole ? your infra structure is falling to shit faster than oursa and thats saying something as here they don't fill pot holes in until it's a short cut to a better life in Australia.
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galad2003 wrote:
growlley wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Stagnation in government is a wonderful thing. The less these idiots get to screw up, the better off we all are.


An excellent way to sum it up sir...have a cookie!


Ferret


Except for when the essential thimgs also fail to get done amd society breaks down , like road and rail infrastructure to move goods\food etc.


Ah never mind it's only the rural backwaters that won't be able to affords to ship stuff. Nobody gives a shit about them anyways, They can always build their own railways and roads and bridges or move to a city.


Oh wow, there's some hyperbole. Fucking road construction is always happening - no chance that scenario is ever going to happen.


That's true in Illinois and Iowa -- as soon as you cross the border to South Dakota, the roads are both in better condition and not constantly under construction. (Literally across the border.)

I can only assume the state governments have different levels of cronyism.
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Stagnation - Can we solve the problem? Dunno maybe if we gave it some time and a little thought maybe a 1000 years it will resolve itself.
 
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