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Panzer Grenadier: Eastern Front» Forums » General

Subject: A bugging question rss

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Jules Redmand
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Been playing this for sometime now and a nagging question often occurs when playing and as of yet can't find the answer in the rules (or perhaps I keep overlooking what I'm looking for )

When a unit takes a step loss,all other units in the same stack have to undergo an M2 role, now my question is does the unit that suffered the step loss also have to undergo the M2 roll as well or have they already been punished enough?
 
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Tom Oxley
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From the 4th edition:

14.1 Morale Checks.
When a combat result requires a morale check, the owning
player rolls two dice for each affected unit and/or leader
and adds any applicable modifier to the result.

I read it that the unit that takes the step loss is one of the affected units, and do the M2 roll. I don't think this is a change from 3rd edition but may be a clarification. You might want to look at the annotated rules at http://pg-hq.com/pg_rules.php which may have a bit more detail.

Tom Oxley
 
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Russ Williams
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Thomaso827 wrote:
From the 4th edition:

14.1 Morale Checks.
When a combat result requires a morale check, the owning
player rolls two dice for each affected unit and/or leader
and adds any applicable modifier to the result.

I read it that the unit that takes the step loss is one of the affected units, and do the M2 roll. I don't think this is a change from 3rd edition but may be a clarification. You might want to look at the annotated rules at http://pg-hq.com/pg_rules.php which may have a bit more detail.

Tom Oxley


FWIW it's been a while since I played, but skimming through rules there I see this rather clear seeming confirmation:

7.6 Step Losses

A full-strength unit which takes a step loss must flip to its reduced-strength side. A reduced-strength unit which takes a step loss is eliminated. A unit with no reduced strength side that takes a step loss is also eliminated. Any unit that takes two or more step losses is eliminated. If a transport is eliminated, any unit or leader which was loaded on it at the time is also eliminated. Any unit that suffers a step loss and survives must take an immediate M2 morale check.

(Emphasis added.)
 
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Jules Redmand
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Ok so if a unit that takes a step loss also then has to make an M2 roll and fails that roll, it will become either disrupted or demoralized as per rules.

Now if that unit failed that roll by rolling a 12 that would mean another step loss correct? Meaning that a unit could effectively lose two steps in one action segment from the same combat hit?
 
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Mark Stadel
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If a demoralized unit fails its morale roll by three or more, it suffers a step loss, so an already demoralized unit that takes a step loss often loses a second step (because its morale value usually drops when it suffers the loss, its one less because its demoralized, and then the M2 check is two worse again).

For example, a german infantry with a morale of 8/7 is demoralized (so its morale is currently -1); it takes a step loss and is forced to make an M2 morale check; assuming there are no leader bonuses, etc ... it loses its second step on a roll of 7+ (morale is 7 (half strength), -1 (demoralized) so it has a 6 ... if a 7+ is rolled on an M2 (+2 to roll) check, the sum will be 3 more than its current score so it takes another loss).
 
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Jules Redmand
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This is all very clear now. I think on my last post I was confusing when a unit makes a recovery roll and if it fails it flees rather than gets eliminated as it would from a direct combat morale check.

To be honest I find the morale/recovery system to be the trickiest to master in the game, as the rest is fairly straightforward once you're down and playing the game.
 
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Joshua Gottesman
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This is why bad morale troops (7/6, 7/5, 6/5, etc.) melt away so quickly. Once they are demoralized, they don't recover, and when they are demoralized they become very brittle to that 2nd morale check (a 6 morale is reduced to 5 when demoralized, so an M2 means a 2 or 3 to pass (3 in 36) and it dies on a 6 or higher (26 of 36 chance).
 
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