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Firefly: The Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clear as Mud rss

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Mudd Grizzly

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I could've sworn that I'd read the answer to this question somewhere, but I couldn't find evidence of it either here, in the rulebook, or in the FAQ.

Can any Crew Member with the Mudder keyword be turned in to Higgins for a reward, or is it just the Crew Members named Mudder?
 
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Carey Klenetsky
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I went looking and found that GF9 addressed some mudder questions a while back in this thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1452685/dropping-mudders

"4. Can the barkeep be dropped off with Higgins, even though his card doesn't state that he is Indentured? - Yes, the named Mudders may be Removed from Play at Harvest as well (They just won’t be as profitable, except for poor Grimey)."
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Jay Johnson
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the actual "Mudder" cards are the only ones that have the "Indentured: Remove from Play at Harvest, Red Sun to take $500. This counts as Immoral." text.

The only mention elsewhere is under "New Contacts" on pg 9 of the Kalidasa rulebook that says:
Quote:
The mud pits of Higgins’ Moon are always in need of more indentured servants. Kalidasa includes a number of “Mudder” Crew Cards. Any of these Mudders can be turned over to Higgins for a tidy profit.


There is no mention elsewhere in the rulebook or on Higgins' Job cards or anything, so my interpretation would be that only the actual "Mudder" cards can be turned into Higgins.

You could argue that it is similar to Medics and the Med checks, as all Medics have that ability, not just the ones who have it listed on their card, but that is specifically addressed in the rulebook
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Mudd Grizzly

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cklenetsky wrote:
I went looking and found that GF9 addressed some mudder questions a while back in this thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1452685/dropping-mudders


That's just the thread I was looking for! Thanks! I wonder why I couldn't find it.

I remember being surprised because, like Jay pointed out, that doesn't seem clear from the text in the rulebook. I guess when it says, 'Kalidasa includes a number of “Mudder” Crew Cards' it's referring to all of the Crew with the Mudder keyword, not just those named Mudder. But I guess it makes sense flavor-wise.
 
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Jay Johnson
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I've never really been tempted to sell any Mudders to Higgins. Maybe I just sympathize too much with the Mudders to send them back to the bogs after they've escaped. haha

Or I just don't find it worth it. I'd rather keep the Mudder on my crew for the tech skill (and possibly to have someone to keep the Operative away from more valuable Wanted crew should I happen to run into the Corvette).

Though I suppose if I didn't have Moral crew, and I was already making a trip to Harvest, I could drop 'em off for an extra $500 (could even opt not to pay them a cut of the last job, as them being disgruntled wouldn't matter at that point).

Too bad they didn't include some way to use this to acheive Solid rep with Higgins. Getting Solid for bringing only one Mudder might be a bit too much of a benefit, but if someone brought in two, you'd think that would put them on Higgins' good side.
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Mudd Grizzly

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I hear you about sympathizing with the Mudders (except maybe the Foreman...). I've never sold a Mudder either, but I wanted to be clear on what the rules with them are. I like the idea of Mudders getting you solid with Higgins. In the games I play, he's more or less ignored. If this makes him a better option, I'd be for it.

I haven't seen it done, but for someone who got the Mudder Foreman's combo, I can imagine swinging by Higgins for a quick $1,500 late game.
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richard spangle
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GF9 answered this question a tad back:
Gale Force Nine wrote:
Let’s try to un-muddy the waters shall we?

1. Does it count as an action? - No, much like dismissing crew or jettisoning cargo, this does not count as an action.

2. Can more than one be dropped off at the same time? - Yes, you may individually sell them off one after the other during your turn.

3. If dropping off more than one, does it count as a single immoral event, or multiple? - Since they are being sold off individually, each instance is an Immoral act, so if two or more are sold off in a single turn, all Moral Crew will walk away while a Moral Leader will dismiss their entire Crew (including any remaining Mudders).

4. Can the barkeep be dropped off with Higgins, even though his card doesn't state that he is Indentured? - Yes, the named Mudders may be Removed from Play at Harvest as well (They just won’t be as profitable, except for poor Grimey).

as for actually selling Mudders to Magistrate Higgins, I did try it once. I stacked a whole crew of scumbags, headed by the heavy poolstick clown Wright (Dirty Slaver), and I gotta say that I managed to pull in a quite a few coins playing the rather immoral game (but now I've recovered and back to playing the Moral game).
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Jay Johnson
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demonllama wrote:
as for actually selling Mudders to Magistrate Higgins, I did try it once. I stacked a whole crew of scumbags, headed by the heavy poolstick clown Wright (Dirty Slaver), and I gotta say that I managed to pull in a quite a few coins playing the rather immoral game (but now I've recovered and back to playing the Moral game).

I don't think Wright's fugitive bonus applies to selling Mudders, even though thematically that sounds like something right up Wright's alley (being a slaver and all), more so than some of the Transport jobs hauling Fugitives.

One of these times I'm going to try a game with Wright and the Esmeralda, concentrating on transport jobs delivering fugitives, and possibly selling some Mudders while I'm at it.

I'm looking into relocating for a job, which will put me closer to some friends and family who enjoy playing Firefly: the Game, so hopefully that means I'll be able to play more often.
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Trueflight Silverwing
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JayJ79 wrote:
the actual "Mudder" cards are the only ones that have the "Indentured: Remove from Play at Harvest, Red Sun to take $500. This counts as Immoral." text.

The only mention elsewhere is under "New Contacts" on pg 9 of the Kalidasa rulebook that says:
Quote:
The mud pits of Higgins’ Moon are always in need of more indentured servants. Kalidasa includes a number of “Mudder” Crew Cards. Any of these Mudders can be turned over to Higgins for a tidy profit.


There is no mention elsewhere in the rulebook or on Higgins' Job cards or anything, so my interpretation would be that only the actual "Mudder" cards can be turned into Higgins.

You could argue that it is similar to Medics and the Med checks, as all Medics have that ability, not just the ones who have it listed on their card, but that is specifically addressed in the rulebook


It is a keyword thing, just like Medic. Not all medics have the whole text about being able to keep crew from dying on their card, but they all have the ability. The same goes for mudders. If they have the keyword, then they have the ability, regardless of it their card has the text or now.
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richard spangle
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JayJ79 wrote:
demonllama wrote:
as for actually selling Mudders to Magistrate Higgins, I did try it once. I stacked a whole crew of scumbags, headed by the heavy poolstick clown Wright (Dirty Slaver), and I gotta say that I managed to pull in a quite a few coins playing the rather immoral game (but now I've recovered and back to playing the Moral game).

I don't think Wright's fugitive bonus applies to selling Mudders, even though thematically that sounds like something right up Wright's alley (being a slaver and all), more so than some of the Transport jobs hauling Fugitives.

You are correct, and I did not play it that way, I just thought he was the perfect captain to pull off such an underhanded job
 
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Mudd Grizzly

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Ender02 wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
the actual "Mudder" cards are the only ones that have the "Indentured: Remove from Play at Harvest, Red Sun to take $500. This counts as Immoral." text.

The only mention elsewhere is under "New Contacts" on pg 9 of the Kalidasa rulebook that says:
Quote:
The mud pits of Higgins’ Moon are always in need of more indentured servants. Kalidasa includes a number of “Mudder” Crew Cards. Any of these Mudders can be turned over to Higgins for a tidy profit.


There is no mention elsewhere in the rulebook or on Higgins' Job cards or anything, so my interpretation would be that only the actual "Mudder" cards can be turned into Higgins.

You could argue that it is similar to Medics and the Med checks, as all Medics have that ability, not just the ones who have it listed on their card, but that is specifically addressed in the rulebook


It is a keyword thing, just like Medic. Not all medics have the whole text about being able to keep crew from dying on their card, but they all have the ability. The same goes for mudders. If they have the keyword, then they have the ability, regardless of it their card has the text or now.


I don't want to speak for Jay, but I initially read it the same way. Where the Medic ability is explained in the rules, there's some text that reads: "Note: All Medics have this ability, even if the above rule is not printed on their card (as with Simon Tam and Doralee)." It would've been nice to see something similar for Mudders.
 
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richard spangle
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Mudd Grizzly wrote:
Ender02 wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
the actual "Mudder" cards are the only ones that have the "Indentured: Remove from Play at Harvest, Red Sun to take $500. This counts as Immoral." text.

The only mention elsewhere is under "New Contacts" on pg 9 of the Kalidasa rulebook that says:
Quote:
The mud pits of Higgins’ Moon are always in need of more indentured servants. Kalidasa includes a number of “Mudder” Crew Cards. Any of these Mudders can be turned over to Higgins for a tidy profit.


There is no mention elsewhere in the rulebook or on Higgins' Job cards or anything, so my interpretation would be that only the actual "Mudder" cards can be turned into Higgins.

You could argue that it is similar to Medics and the Med checks, as all Medics have that ability, not just the ones who have it listed on their card, but that is specifically addressed in the rulebook


It is a keyword thing, just like Medic. Not all medics have the whole text about being able to keep crew from dying on their card, but they all have the ability. The same goes for mudders. If they have the keyword, then they have the ability, regardless of it their card has the text or now.


I don't want to speak for Jay, but I initially read it the same way. Where the Medic ability is explained in the rules, there's some text that reads: "Note: All Medics have this ability, even if the above rule is not printed on their card (as with Simon Tam and Doralee)." It would've been nice to see something similar for Mudders.


I think the key term here is "Any of these Mudders," but I think it was also clarified in another thread (somewhere)...

Gale Force Nine wrote:
Let’s try to un-muddy the waters shall we?

--SNIP--

4. Can the barkeep be dropped off with Higgins, even though his card doesn't state that he is Indentured? - Yes, the named Mudders may be Removed from Play at Harvest as well (They just won’t be as profitable, except for poor Grimey).


it's found on THIS thread...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1452685/dropping-mudders
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