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Martians: A Story of Civilization» Forums » General

Subject: Is mining supposed to be this random? rss

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David Turczi
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I drew roughly 10 mining cards during the game, I had the +1 card tech from round 1 almost.
1 got 2 or 3 crystals, 2 proof of lifes, all the other were blank. Therefore my "invest in researches" strategy totally didn't pay off, the player who focused on feeding first and only starting collecting minerals late game beat me by 30+ points (3p competitive)

- is there some obvious rule mistake we might have made?
- is feeding/healing a MUST? is it possible to win with only gaining ~8 food late game?
- is there a suggestion for people who hate the swingy-ness of the mineral deck?

Also, in 3p, the turn order seems very static. I was last player every cycle, so my options were super limited.

The other players had fun, said it reminded them of Agricola's tightness, but with a cooler theme. I struggled throughout, felt very unfun, I barely felt any choices, and when I had a plan it usually got screwed up by the weather or the players before me in turn order.

I wanna not hate this game, what am I doing wrong?
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David Bancroft
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Before playing again, I would remove the blank cards(wink wink) whistle
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Jonathan Franklin
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I wonder if M;ASoC is a game that has non-viable primary strategies.

For example, is it possible that even if all the mining had gone well, it would not have been a primary strategy, but a secondary one to compliment something else?

Sometimes it is hard to know in the first few plays if a game is Fields of Arle (sandbox) or Feast of Odin (some paths feel like dead ends).
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François Mahieu
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Did you draft the cards?
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Claudio Coppini
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Quote:
- is feeding/healing a MUST? is it possible to win with only gaining ~8 food late game?


I'd say that if you mine a lot you might disregard the hunger token and just pay your meeples back with all the cash you do from doing research.

Quote:
Also, in 3p, the turn order seems very static. I was last player every cycle, so my options were super limited.


Isn't the first player supposed to change every round?
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David Turczi
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paxton73 wrote:
Before playing again, I would remove the blank cards(wink wink) whistle


Was I "supposed to" remove them, or are you saying I should? What's the designer intention?

poifpoif wrote:
Did you draft the cards?

Draft? I thought you draw 1 card for every red you mined and that's it. Did we miss a step?
Drugo81 wrote:
Quote:
- is feeding/healing a MUST? is it possible to win with only gaining ~8 food late game?


I'd say that if you mine a lot you might disregard the hunger token and just pay your meeples back with all the cash you do from doing research.
Well, I disregarded both sickness and hunger tokens, then paid back 8 food on my last 4 gos.
Quote:

Quote:
Also, in 3p, the turn order seems very static. I was last player every cycle, so my options were super limited.


Isn't the first player supposed to change every round?

Yes, but that means I'm the last player every 3rd round -> the last round of every cycle.
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Claudio Coppini
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Quote:
Well, I disregarded both sickness and hunger tokens, then paid back 8 food on my last 4 gos.


8 foods? Did you have 8 hunger tokens?? In my understanding you remove all the tokens that remain in the quarters at the end of every cycle after getting the penalties. Sorry if I just misunderstood what you meant.

Quote:
Yes, but that means I'm the last player every 3rd round -> the last round of every cycle.


I don't think that should be a disadvantage, maybe I'm missing something.
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David Turczi
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Drugo81 wrote:
Quote:
Well, I disregarded both sickness and hunger tokens, then paid back 8 food on my last 4 gos.


8 foods? Did you have 8 hunger tokens?? In my understanding you remove all the tokens that remain in the quarters at the end of every cycle after getting the penalties. Sorry if I just misunderstood what you meant.


Hmm. Your reaction implies we played two rules wrong.
a. are the tokens cleared every cycle?
b. can you "bring home" food/medicine just for the 2/3 vp even if nobody is hungry/sick?

we played no, yes; but i'm guessing it should have been yes, no. And that also answers why the medicine producing player got so much vp when she cleared 4 sickness in the last round
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Claudio Coppini
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Quote:
a. are the tokens cleared every cycle?


Yeah, the rulebook on page 16 under Quarter Summary says:

"After analyzing all the quarters, all oxygen, disease and hunger tokens should be removed from them, except for the last round of the game, when those demand tokens are supposed to stay in the quarters".

Quote:
b. can you "bring home" food/medicine just for the 2/3 vp even if nobody is hungry/sick?


I don't think this is possible.

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David Turczi
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Ok, so that clears up the sickness/hunger issue, we clearly played it wrong

What about the blank cards, are we supposed to remove them?
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Claudio Coppini
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TDaver wrote:
What about the blank cards, are we supposed to remove them?


I think David was just suggesting a house rule. The blank cards should be included per rules.

If you feel the mining to be random because of the blank cards, then I'd say it's totally a good idea to remove them. I guess I'll do that too! (not in solo though, love some randomness in my solo games )
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Pierre
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TDaver wrote:
b. can you "bring home" food/medicine just for the 2/3 vp even if nobody is hungry/sick?

The rules as written are not exactly clear in that regard, but the symbols above the cycle track use the common "Spend X to discard Y and gain Z" icons. Also, the "gain arrow" is connected to the corresponding hunger/disease token.

Therefore I am pretty sure that the answer is "no", you can only gain the reputation if you actually cure a disease or satisfy hunger with the delivered product.

Read it like this: "Cool stuff bro, nice food and all, but we're so stuffed right now we can barely don our suits and leave the airlocks."



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David Turczi
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Drugo81 wrote:
TDaver wrote:
What about the blank cards, are we supposed to remove them?


I think David was just suggesting a house rule. The blank cards should be included per rules.

If you feel the mining to be random because of the blank cards, then I'd say it's totally a good idea to remove them. I guess I'll do that too! (not in solo though, love some randomness in my solo games )


When I was playing the game and I drew my 4th blank card something popped into my mind: my own game, Anachrony. In my original design, the research action included rolling 2 dice. One of the dice had 1-2 "blank" faces, if rolled you'd get a consolation VP instead of the the random breakthrough (which has a surprisingly similar function to the minerals in Martians). Almost every single playtester hated the frustration of not getting a breakthrough. So we removed the blank faces, and then later further reduced the randomness of the action, while maintaining the uncertainty. I know "some people enjoy the thrill of randomness", which is what I was saying when other people were suggesting to take off the blank faces (and I was wrong...), but the swing between "no money and vp" and "all the money and the vp" is just too big...

TLDR: I will be removing the blanks in competitive games.
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Claudio Coppini
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I agree David, I mean thematically it does make sense, cause obviously you might find nothing when digging through Mars rocks, but indeed in a competitive game it might just lead to frustration.

I think it would be make sense to leave the blanks in only for cooperative modes.

(And btw, I'm very looking forward to Anachrony! Backer here )
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Joe Pilkus
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David,

Thank you for your GeekMail ~ I hope to address these issues once I receive the game!

Cheers,
Joe
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John Bandettini
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Maybe remove some of the blanks, but leave a couple in just to add a little uncertainty. Or award bonus points at the end to most frustrated miner.
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