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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Leveling up question rss

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Donny
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Can someone explain to me how leveling up works on this game? Thanks.
 
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souloon souloon
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Between scenarios you pay xp points to replace cards in your deck with stronger cards. Cost for that is 1 xp per white pip of the card (its level) - minimum 1. That's mean that even changing lvl 0 card for another lvl 0 card costs 1 xp. If you want to upgrade card with the same title with more powerful version you pay difference of experience between the two - again minimum one. You still as always need to honour deckbuilding rules - so you cannot buy for example a Close Call (red card) for a Roland - which deck can include only blue and orange cards.

There are currently 4 cards per class with level higher than 0 plus two neutrals. That's mean that you could buy any from the 4 cards of your main class (blue for Roland), and some (lvl 1 or 2) from your secondary class (orange for Roland )after your first scenario, as long you got enough xp of course.

How to get xp? There are 3 ways to do so.

First is to completely investigate location with a victory keyword on it. Thats means that if that kind of location don't have any clues on it after scenario ends - it is worth xp.

Second way is to defeat an enemy with victory keyword.

Third way is a scenario based rewards.

Of course there are exceptions, like a purple card (You can find it in dunwich legacy expansion) that is worth 1 xp for a price of everyone playing one encounter card each.

Example:
After harrowing experience in own home Roland beat the powerful creature hunting him in darkness. He also managed to find all the clues from terrifying location with victory keyword. He looks in the scenario book and it says that his reward for this resolution is 2 xp. He sums it up, 2 for scenario reward, 2 for powerful monster (it says victory 2) and one for location(it says victory 1). That's total of five, there is another location that has a victory keyword, but there are still clues left there so it didn't count. Some things are best left untouched - thinks Roland.

He is only interested in more powerful cards. So he skips all level zero cards.

He can buy any of the blue cards, orange cards with zero, one or two pips, or any of the neutral cards.

He decided that he doesn't want to end in asylum and his sanity is low so he first buy the elder sign to protect it in next adventures - a grey card with 3 pips. 3 spent - 2 to go.

Then he upgrade his magnifying glass to a better version. His old got 0 white pips, and new one got one white pip. 1 minus 0 is one.

He is left with one xp point, he thinks about adding Extra Ammunition to the deck (blue card with one white pip)but he decides that he want to save up for a Shotgun. He records that he got one experience left in the campaign sheet.

Now his deck got 31 cards and that's too much, and his deck building rules are clear - he needs to have 30 cards, no more, no less. He removes a orange card with zero white pips - Mind Over Matter. Now with new tools, he is ready to explore unspeakable horrors of town of Arkham yet again.
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Simon C
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Great answer above to the original question, but there's one small mistake in a side-comment...

soul31 wrote:
You still as always need to honour deckbuilding rules - so you cannot buy for example a Close Call (red card) for a Roland - which deck can include only blue and orange cards.

There are currently 4 cards per class with level higher than 0 plus two neutrals. That's mean that you could buy any from the 10 cards after your first scenario, as long you got enough xp of course.


Note that characters can only use cards of certain levels in some classes. In the core set, each investigator has a primary class (for Roland, that's Blue - Guardian) from which they can use any card by paying sufficient experience, but their second class is secondary and they can only use cards of Level 0-2 (in Roland's case, Orange - Seeker). So characters don't have the full range of 10 XP cards suggested: they can only actually use 8 or 9 of them, since every class's 4 cards costing XP include one or two that are Level 3 or 4.

That said, you can also include additional Level 0 cards (if you've got 2 core sets to allow deckbuilding options), so there will be more cards to choose from than just those 8 or 9.
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souloon souloon
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Wow you're right. It's really early where I am living now. Ok, time to edit
 
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Peter vP
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Is XP divided between the investigators or can all investigators spend the total collected XP?
 
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souloon souloon
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There is no common pool of experience points. Every investigator got his own experience points to spent on cards. Also every investigator got the same amount of experience points reward after a scenario. Getting back to my example - if Roland would face horrors of scenario with Daisy, and Daisy would clear find all the clues in first location and Roland would find all the clues in second one - they would both get 6 experience each to spent on upgrading their decks . 2 for scenario reward, 2 for boss monster, 1 for first location, and 1 for second location.
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Simon C
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soul31 wrote:
Example:
After harrowing experience in own home Roland beat the powerful creature hunting him in darkness. He also managed to find all the clues from terryfying location with victory keyword. He looks in the scenario book and it says that his reward for this resolution is 2 xp. He sums it up, 2 for scenario reward, 2 for powerful monster (it says victory 2) and one for location(it says victory 1). That's total of five, there is another location that has a victory keyword, but there are still clues left there so it didn't count. Some things are best left untouched - thinks Roland.

He is only interested in more powerful cards. So he skips all level zero cards.

He can buy any of the blue cards, orange cards with zero, one or two pips, or any of the neutral cards.

He decided that he doesn't want to end in asylum and his sanity is low so he first buy the elder sign to protect it in next adventures - a grey card with 3 pips. 3 spent - 2 to go.

Then he upgrade his magnifying glass to a better version. His old got 0 white pips, and new one cost one. 0 minus one is minus one, but lowest cost is always at least one.

He is left with one xp point, he thinks about adding Extra Ammunition to the deck (blue card with one white pip)but he decides that he want to save up for a Shotgun. He records that he got one experience left in the campaign sheet.

Now his deck got 31 cards and that's too much, and his deck building rules are clear - he needs to have 30 cards, no more, no less. He removes a orange card with zero white pips - Mind Over Matter. Now with new tools, he is ready to explore unspeakable horrors of town of Arkham yet again.


I like this example Unfortunately the bit where you discuss the upgrading the magnifying glass is a bit wrong.

If Roland wants to upgrade his base version (0 XP) to the better version (1 XP) he pays 1 XP because 1 - 0 = 1, not because 1 is the minimum. You put the old and new values the wrong way around when "paying the difference". In this case the actual result was the same, but your method would mean any upgrade costs 1 XP even if you went from a 0 level card to a 5-level card!
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Simon Webster
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soul31 wrote:


Now his deck got 31 cards and that's too much, and his deck building rules are clear - he needs to have 30 cards, no more, no less. He removes a orange card with zero white pips - Mind Over Matter. Now with new tools, he is ready to explore unspeakable horrors of town of Arkham yet again.


Hmmmm. Is this true? I was of the impression that decks could grow in size..
 
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Brian Mullin
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English Rules Reference, p. 5
Quote:
When purchasing a higher level version of a card with
the same title, the investigator may choose to “upgrade”
that card by paying only the difference in experience (to
a minimum of 1) between the two cards and removing
the lower level version of the card from his or her deck.


Quote:
New cards are purchased (or upgraded) individually.
If an investigator wishes to purchase more than
1 copy of a new card, each copy must be paid for
separately, and one card must be removed from that
investigator's deck for each copy purchased.


[emphasis added in bold]
 
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Simon C
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Also, under Deckbuilding:

Rules Reference Guide, Deckbuilding wrote:
A player’s investigator deck must include the exact number of player cards indicated on the back of his or her investigator card as the “Deck Size.” Weaknesses, investigator-specific cards, and scenario cards that are added to a player’s deck do not count towards this number.
 
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Simon Webster
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Marvinrah wrote:


[emphasis added in bold]


Well, bummer.

I totally get understand and agree with the 2 per card name limit, but not being able to add new cards without "forgetting" something seems a little contrary to character growth.

Plus you can still add new weaknesses to your deck, right?
So that fact that you can't increase deck size to compensate seems harsh. I get this is Lovecraftian so harsh comes with the territory, but still.. I feel this rule limits strategic considerations. (Deck size vs. efficiency)

Seems I'm not the only one either. Here's a thread discussing deck size on CardgameDB and everyone seems to have missed this rule also:
http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33423-deck...
 
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Simon Webster
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LeonardQuirm wrote:
Also, under Deckbuilding:

Rules Reference Guide, Deckbuilding wrote:
A player’s investigator deck must include the exact number of player cards indicated on the back of his or her investigator card as the “Deck Size.” Weaknesses, investigator-specific cards, and scenario cards that are added to a player’s deck do not count towards this number.


That's deck building. Not levelling up.
 
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Simon C
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WrenHong wrote:
LeonardQuirm wrote:
Also, under Deckbuilding:

Rules Reference Guide, Deckbuilding wrote:
A player’s investigator deck must include the exact number of player cards indicated on the back of his or her investigator card as the “Deck Size.” Weaknesses, investigator-specific cards, and scenario cards that are added to a player’s deck do not count towards this number.


That's deck building. Not levelling up.


Well, Campaign Play specifically references following those same Deckbuilding rules...

Rules Reference Guide, Campaign Play wrote:

An investigator’s deckbuilding guidelines (found on the back of the investigator card) must be observed while that investigator is purchasing new cards. Only cards the investigator has access to may be purchased. The deck-size requirement must also be maintained, so that for each (nonpermanent) card purchased and added to a deck, a different
card is removed from the deck.
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Simon Webster
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Fair do's.

Still don't like it though :-\
 
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Donny
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As this game is themed toward the rpg aspect, will there be rules that allow you to add exp points toward stats rather than card with a certain set of limit?
 
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Andrew Keddie
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iLLumines wrote:
As this game is themed toward the rpg aspect, will there be rules that allow you to add exp points toward stats rather than card with a certain set of limit?


There aren't. There are, however, cards which when played give either static or temporary improvements to stats.
 
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Marco Donghi
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soul31 wrote:
Cost for that is 1 xp per white pip of the card (its level) - minimum 0.

I'm sure you meant minimum 1 xp.
 
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Peter Hardy
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WrenHong wrote:
Marvinrah wrote:


[emphasis added in bold]


Well, bummer.

I totally get understand and agree with the 2 per card name limit, but not being able to add new cards without "forgetting" something seems a little contrary to character growth.



I don't see it that way. I think the deck represents how the character has prepared for the scenario ahead. Not what they have learnt or not, not what they have forgotten either. Take the card away, well could you not bring it back (at least theoretically) later? It hadn't been forgotten in the mean-time.

Also to me the tight deck limit represents a constraint on what is actually experienced by the characters. I even take the flight of fantasy to imagine it in a semi-deterministic sense. The alignment of the stars is such-and-such, and so this will happen (as represented by the actual deck configuration being used). At least within a certain range.

Anyway whistle
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Simon Webster
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Sure.
It's a matter of my own expectations really. From FFG's marketing I was expecting half co-op adventure, half RPG.

I've never played an RPG where improving my character meant "forgetting" something I previously knew.
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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WrenHong wrote:
Sure.
It's a matter of my own expectations really. From FFG's marketing I was expecting half co-op adventure, half RPG.

I've never played an RPG where improving my character meant "forgetting" something I previously knew.

Think of it this way, in an RPG, maybe you have a skill level and when you need it you roll dice and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

In AHLCG with no dice, sometimes you have the card in hand and sometimes you don't.

In both cases you've built a character with potential and can even stack things toward working in your favor (buff up a high combat skill investigator with multiple weapons or combat iconed cards) but sometimes you'll going to succeed and sometimes you're going to fail.

If you don't have the right card when you need it, just consider it a fail. Instead of blaming the dice you can blame your deck.
 
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Allan Clements
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Many of the cards are things, so in an RPG when you get a better weapon you tend to get rid of the old one. If it is more of a skill then, I stopped training my combat, and focused more on being sneaky, and thus lost some ability to hit hard but gained the ability to move quietly.

If anything, an RPG is less realistic than this card game, overall I am a lot more than I was, but I am terrible at some things I used to be good at now because I stopped doing them. You can't be good at everything.

I am sure they can print a "riding a bike" card which can have special text that it cannot be removed from your deck.
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Simon C
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WrenHong wrote:
I've never played an RPG where improving my character meant "forgetting" something I previously knew.


Never played Pokemon?
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mathew rynich
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If you just kept adding cards to your deck you would be hurting yourself in a different way. You'd be lowering the percent chance of pulling any particular card. Hopefully anything you added to your deck is making you stronger and anything you culled from your deck was your weakest card or a lower level version of the card you just add. In that sense you are only getting stronger and not weaker.

From a thematic perspective that could be those abilities atrophying from disuse, or more likely just a change of tactics. Why bother using that knife anymore when I can have access to a shotgun.
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David Boeren
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My 10th level fighter has "forgotten" how to swing his sucky +0 sword because now he's using something better, just like in this game.
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Philip Kitching
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dboeren wrote:
My 10th level fighter has "forgotten" how to swing his sucky +0 sword because now he's using something better, just like in this game.

I'd argue that he hasn't forgotten the skills of "cower behind shield", "wave sword ineffectually" and "knocked out, AGAIN!" But is just choosing to select from "parry effortlessly", "killing blow" and "only a scratch".
 
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