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ackmondual
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A classic "frowned upon" scenario is if a large publisher uses kickstarter. Issues there include but not limited to some odd rational that large board game pubs should be forbidden from using kickstarter because they have the resources (even though ks doesn't officially prohibit that).


I take it the BGG community would also frown upon a publisher/designer kickstarting a game a 2nd time since it was already "proven" when it successfully funded (and I'm assuming for this post, successfully delivered) a previous time? (I wouldn't really mind this either, as it's still a risk for a publisher to make a print run of something that can conceivably end up selling poorly. If this bothers folks, then I suppose they should just vote with their wallets)
 
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Larry Rice
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I expect most people outside of the vocal few on either side really care. KS is an available tool - I'd say use whatever method makes the best business sense for you.
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Phillip Harpring
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The reason Kickstarter exists is for projects to be fulfilled that wouldn't get funded through traditional means, due to the creators not having enough of their own capital and it being too small or risky for other investors to care. It seems strange to me that a game that had a successful kickstarter the first time around and completely sold out its first run would have trouble getting backing for a second run from more traditional avenues, but I'm not a publisher and have zero knowledge of the actual game in question, so I don't really know.

Some game publishers now seem to use KS as a pre-ordering system, or a way to raise money for a run without having to pay interest on a loan, which strikes some as a bit sleazy, but I don't really get upset about any kind of kickstarters outside of ones made to actually scam people out of money. If I don't like the way a kickstarter campaign is being handled, I just don't back it.
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Magic Pink
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Nah. As long as the game didn't enter normal retail channels I don't see any reason to not KS a good project (or a reworked poor project) a second time.
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Pete Goch
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Publishers can use Kickstarter as a marketing tool and a preorder system for their games.

Consumers can choose to back or to not back their Kickstarter for whatever reason they like.

Does there need to be any more to it than that?
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Freelance Police
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What KS opponents don't seem to understand is that the traditional distributor-retail model puts publishers and customers behind the interests of the distributors and retailers. Even if you're a retail publisher, distributors will not necessarily carry your stock. Distributors require a deep discount that both prevents games from reaching the market, and reduces the amount of content that a publisher can provide to the customer. Sure, if you see the retailer-distributor model providing a service that justifies them taking a 40% cut of the MSRP and them telling you what games you can buy, then support this model. If you believe in "cutting out the middle man", receiving more content for a lower price, and buying the games *you* want to buy, don't.

This video is by Reaper Miniatures, one of the largest miniature companies in the market (it's run by accountants), and discusses how the distributor-retailer model no longer provides the service to publishers and manufacturers that it used to. (IMO, There are now so many games on the market, that distributors can't carry every single game. But this is less a defense than an argument that the distributor-retailer model no longer works for today's gamer.)

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Timothy Young
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I think if bigger firms didn't use Kickstarter, more would move towards pre-order systems like GMTs P500. Cost of production is big and the board game world can be fickle and unpredictable. If anything, reprints can be harder to gauge, particularly if the first run was successful, there might not be a big market left.

The advantage with KS is that there is more accountability (ability to post comments and questions etc.) and it is easier for people to find. The three games I have backed on KS so far were from publishers I hadn't heard of before so if they had the games on their own site, I simply wouldn't have seen them.
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Rick
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I see no problem with it. I've seen it done too. Publisher sells out of their initial print run and needs to fund a 2nd printing. I would just add some levels of "bonus" material for people that already have the game, but still want to help fund.

Bonus = Expansion or promos or extras not available through retail.
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Greg Gresik
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Several good points already made here. I agree with most.

I have absolutely no problems with established publishers (and established games) using Kickstarter for several reasons already touched on:

1) It reduces their risk, thereby allowing them to more "accurately" price the game.

2) If it is a print run after the first, it allows the publisher to add "special" stretch goals, tweak rule books, fix initial publication errors/flaws, etc.

3) In the end, it is a benefit to consumers as well. Generally, given the above two points, we get more game (or maybe a "better" game) for a fairer price - with the only "expense" being the wait.

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Garth Tams
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Lets ask everyone to only use half the available tools in the shed to do the job, and then we can ponder why the job could be done better.
 
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Daniel James
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Multiple games have successfully run a kickstarter twice for the same game. The second campaign tends to attempt to translate the game into other languages (Tanto Cuore and fire team:zero for example)
 
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Shawn Harriman
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I cast my vote with my wallet.

I have never backed a kickstarter.

I have given a backer $20 for a copy of a game I want.

Still waiting to see if I will get my product for my payment.

I will never back a kickstarter.

If a game is available at the time and price I feel is equitable for me to purchase I do so.

If not, so be it.

My feelings on KS as a tool are if it helps some get games out there, good for them, but I do not have the money to gamble with my purchases so a backer I am not.

I have only preordered once and likely wont do that again.

An established publisher using KS to me seems fishy. Not supporting any KS projects myself I guess in the end the consequences as well as rewards are theirs to reap so.....
 
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Brennan Sheremeto
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I see kickstarter facilitating two different types of products, new and niche.

Board games as a whole are pretty niche products, so running every single print run of a product through it is fine by me. Ideally this would mean that kickstarters pay less for games of course because the creator gets an extra 40ish% in their pocket and don't have to take out loans to pay for print runs. Note that paying less also includes getting extra stuff for free, since it equals the same thing.
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Richard Sampson
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Level 99 did this exact thing with Millennium Blades.

KS 1: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/level99games/millennium...

KS 2: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/level99games/millennium...

I don't really remember much backlash despite the rewards for the first KS only be partially fulfilled at the time of the second one (or even at this current time). They are a small company and the game is definitely a huge endeavor for them.
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C M
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Based on CMON's repeated success I'd say people have voted with their wallets enough to say there aren't enough people who care to matter.
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Roberto Lanza
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I fail to see the issue....

If a pub makes something people want can sell it direct via Kickstarter, what is the issue?

Kickstarter is a good way to attempt something new. If people like it, then there is a market. If they don't, there was little investment vs spending a million to find out nobody cares.

I do not see how Kickstarter hurts anyone. If you are opposed to pubs using Kickstarter, guess what, don't put into the project. Why stop someone else from having fun?

IMHO, if what they are doing hurts nobody and people benefit, just let it be. If you have philosophical difference of opinion with the practice, simply ignore it. Nobody is forcing you to fund any Kickstarter project but you should not be for stopping others who believe it is a good idea.

I fund what I like. IDK who is running the project as long as they have a track record of deriving on good products.

That said, there are two upcoming Steve Jackson Games Kickstarter project coming (Car Wars) -- one in November and I will happily back them both.
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bort
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larryjrice wrote:
I expect most people outside of the vocal few on either side really care.


Was there a missing not in that sentence?
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Liz D
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From what I've noticed, it's pretty common for designers do a second Kickstarter for a failed project. This is more common among newer designers, though. I have seen Kickstarter projects fail, but then the developers regroup, get some YouTubers to review the game, create some more hype, etc. and then try it again. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

One of the few Kickstarters I have ever actually backed was Darkest Night (Second Edition), and the first campaign didn't go as well as VPG had hoped. They ended up scrapping the first campaign, retooling some of the stretch goals and shipping options, and listening to the criticism of would-be backers. The second Kickstarter campaign was a success. And it really was a lot better. I'm good with that, and I feel confident that the game will be good when it comes out.
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Peter Bowie
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I have no issue established companies using Kickstarter. It just makes sense to garner a market response before putting a product to retail.

I find video game-themed board games and "ohoho, who cares about gameplay? Tons of minis!" type games abhorrent though.
 
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Freelance Police
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Tim RTC wrote:
I think if bigger firms didn't use Kickstarter, more would move towards pre-order systems like GMTs P500.


Just for the record...

* Plaid Hat Games: Pre-ordered Dead of Winter on their website.
* Stonemaier Games: Pre-ordered their third Treasure Chest token on their website.
* Frostgrave: Nickstarter on their website, including unlockables.
* DCM Miniatures (?) on their website, failed.
* Palladium: Crisis of Treachery, pre-KS

If anyone has more examples, let me know!

Speaking of translations, Cthulhu Wars ran additional KS for French, Spanish, and other languages (?). Tanto Cuore ran not just a KS on KickStarter for other languages, but simultaneously ran crowdfunding projects on crowdfunding sites in other countries! After seeing the translation problems with Conan, Lobotomy, and LOAD, I think it may be a good idea to receive additional funding for translations in other languages. Playtest, translate, then playtest the translated editions!
 
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