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Derick Hui
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Hi there everyone! Someone suggested that I should design some 3D printed tokens for Descent. I've previously made tokens for Imperial Assault and I'll share one of the pictures at the end of this post, but you can take a closer look here: http://imgur.com/gallery/mAZKj

Taking the lessons I've learned from the Imperial Assault sets I've made, I'm looking for some feedback and ideas from the community before I actually start the design phase. Both to judge if there is interest, but also to see what direction I should take the designs.

First thing I wanted to identify were which tokens would be good to make into 3D prints. I figure the doors would be the obvious one. Search tokens I thought would be nice to make as some sort of chest, but I'm open to suggestions on those. I'm not sure if objective tokens function similar to terminal tokens from imperial assault, but I don't know what would be an appropriate look for those would be, yet.

There's always a sort of debate between making tokens that look similar to the originals, or to make them fantasy looking with a different design. Personally, I prefer trying to keep within the same realm, but with a different look because it provides something new to look at, but I also understand there's usually a number of players that want something that looks similar to the original because it just fits better visually. Because there are locked and unlocked door versions, there are a few ways to going about making a printed version. I can go the easier/cheaper route and make an open door frame with a slot on top that allows you to slip the paper door token in and out, but for those that would like to paint or have a fully textured door I could also try something more complex. I can just make and offer 5 unlocked and 2 locked doors, or try to make some sort of small add on to an unlocked door model to make indicate it's locked. Over-thinking it probably, but that's kind of what I do when I try to work out some ideas. I believe there are 9 search and 10 objective tokens. Anyways, I probably have a ton of questions when it comes to designing an ideal set, but I'll hold off on making this post even more wordy than it needs to be.

I guess it boils down to if you guys would like to see 3D printed tokens designed? If so, what sort of look would you guys want for said tokens?

Here's the picture of the Imperial Assault tokens I made to give a sense of what my style looks like:
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Alexander Hristov
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Search tokens as chests are a nice idea, but I'm having a bit of an issue with the objective tokens. Mainly because they are used for many different things - columns, altars, creatures, peasants, royalty, levers and so on and so on. Unless you plan on making a bunch of variations to cover the fantasy, it'd be a bit hard.

Doors should be easier to design, you can do it similar to what you've posted. Either way, I believe it's a good idea to get a hold of a campaign book to see, I don't know, the most common usages for the tokens/doors (sometimes used as magical barriers).
 
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Bucho Bucho
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Derikku wrote:

First thing I wanted to identify were which tokens would be good to make into 3D prints. I figure the doors would be the obvious one. Search tokens I thought would be nice to make as some sort of chest, but I'm open to suggestions on those. I'm not sure if objective tokens function similar to terminal tokens from imperial assault, but I don't know what would be an appropriate look for those would be, yet.


I've just found out my library has gotten a 3d printer so I've been looking forward to figure out how to use it add to my mini collection...

For me, I already have doors that match the tiles. Unless I was going to do something like dwarven forge for the whole thing, I wouldn't be into upgrading the doors. Treasure chests would be awesome and I don't even know where to start with the objective tokens. I'd love a set of 3d sculptures for what the tokens are used to represent but that seems like a significant undertaking.

The other thing that would be awesome are mini's for the familiars. Take the summoned stones, there really isn't a decent proxy mini out there anywhere.


 
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Fox Reinard
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This is simply a list of the various tokens I know about, not comprehensive.

8 regular Search tokens, one unique search token that mimics the other 8 except for one side.

4 different objective token colours, "four of each and five purple/blue" is enough to cover any single quest that calls for them from a quest guide. Custom-made quests may differ. Each however needs to have a "Mystery" side.

Hero tokens (4+ of each) would be worth looking into. They are never called for except specifically as "hero tokens" so you can design them to be physically different in any way you like.

Villager tokens (male/female) up to five of each I believe would be sufficient.

Condition tokens (Doomed and Diseased are a little similar in the artwork)

Hero class tokens:
- Melody and Harmony (Bard)
- Valor (Champion) x12
- Hex (Hexer) x20
- Elixir (Apothecary) x8
- Trap (Stalker) x6
- Insight (Prophet)
- Tracking (Bounty hunter)
- Image (Conjurer) x4

Several Familiars:
- Summoned Stones (mentioned) x3
- Reanimate
- Pico (Ronan of the Wild's pet)
- Brightblaze (Challara's pet)
- Skye (Vyrah the Falconer's pet)
- Wolf (Beastmaster)
- Shadow Soul (Shadow Walker)

(Doors)
Locked doors
Unlocked doors
Portcullis
Overgrowth

Not sure if Health/Fatigue/Threat-fortune tokens would be worth it since they are unlimited by supply so quite a few on hand would be best.

Also I really don't know much about Chains that Rust or Mists of Bilehall. How expansive are you looking to design for?
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Derick Hui
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Hey Fox,

I'd say that's a pretty comprehensive list to start with. As far as how expansive I plan to design for, I was looking to start on something simple so I can more or less gauge if it would be popular if I made more. Ideally in the future, if I'm able to pick up a few more tools like a laser cutter or SLA printer, it'll open up more options on what I can design and offer. In the meantime I'm looking to do mostly terrain and smaller 3D tokens. I'd like to do organic tokens (heroes/villagers/etc) down the line but even if I designed them, they'd have to be somewhat geometrically basic to print decently at the smaller scales.

I think I'd like to start working on doors and the search tokens first, see how they look and get some feedback on that. I realize the search tokens may be a little difficult at face value now that I look into what the unique token does. 3D printing isn't a perfect process, so multiple models of the same kind may have just slight variations from each other, which would mean for someone with a very sharp eye may be able to recognize the unique “chest” even if the only designed difference was an indicator on the underside. I could make the chests hollow with a removable top that you can place the original token or some sort of marker inside, if that interests people. That or I can just print 9 identical chests and have the players use their own sticker each game or place the chests over the original game tokens. It's an interesting internal debate trying to find a balance between making something interesting and useable by people, but also to not make it so complex as to needlessly as cost to the final product. Anyone know how large the search tokens are in diameter? I think I'd like to make a 20mm cube size chest to start with.

For the doors, I'd like to hear from anyone that may be interested if they'd prefer seeing fully 3D printed doors, like the ones in the picture above where there's an open and closed version that they swap in an out, or if you'd like a frame with a slot that can hold the cardboard door to indicate when the door is closed and then sliding it out to show just the frame for an open door?

As far as objective tokens go, it's possible to do a variety of different objective tokens, but it would be easier if there were 1 or 2 primary looks that are most common. I can do something like a gem printed in different colors, however, if they require a unique mystery side under each one, I'm not entirely sure how to approach that yet.

I don't own the game yet myself so I haven't had any first hand experience, but I'll start looking into videos and trying to get a grasp how these tokens are used. It's quite a bit more complex than I expected when compared to Imperial Assault. Sorry for my long winded posts, but I really appreciate the feedback from everyone so far and I hope I can get a solid design direction out of it.
 
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Christopher Johnson
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I'm very interested. I bought some of the Imperial Assault pieces you did and they are outstanding. They add a ton of atmosphere and make the board look good while playing. Kudos!
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Derick Hui
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Thanks for the support Christopher! Means a lot to me that people are enjoying something I designed!

An update on the treasure chests. I started working on a basic design where the top is removable, but I've learned that the search tokens are actually 1” or 25mm wide; Exactly the same size as a stile so it won't be possible to go with my original plan to have a treasure chest where you can hide the original unique token inside because it would require the chest itself to be larger than a tile. So I have a couple questions. Would you guys still be interested in treasure chests if it was about 20mmx20mm in size, but you had to put your own marker of some kind inside to indicate “unique” (rolled ball of paper, tiny dice, etc) or would that be too inconvenient? I'm open to ideas if anyone wanted to suggest anything.

Also, I think I will try going for door frames for the doors that utilize the original paper door tokens. Question I have is how many doors are used in a single game at most? I know the core game comes with 7 doors but are there ever more than 4 doors in play at same time?

Thanks for the feedback so far!
 
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uru uru
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Hi Derick,

Nice work on Imperial Assault. I'm eager to see what you can do with Descent !

I have not you design abilities but I have access to a 3D printer and am a long fan of Descent 2nd ed. so I did try to find some 3D printable proxy from a moment.

Concerning Doors

I think that 3D Door proxy that just "stand" open or closed would be nice but I am quite satisfied with the cardboard token as it.
A 3D Door that can OPEN and CLOSE, that would be awesome. Either with a slided cardboard (nice idea) or hinge (more difficult to print). Maybe you could have a unique 3D token for door frame and several cardboard for standard/locked/portcullis/overgrowth(?)

Concerning Search Tokens

As for chest, I have printed severals some time ago and your post made me upload them.

You can see an example here :



They are a slight remix of something made Cymon
You can find them here : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1859037

As a return of experience from them :
- small hinge are a pain to print (1 did break 2 of them for each 1 I saved)
- 3D chests add a lot to the roleplay !

What you want to consider when designing chest for Descent :
- Search Token do not occupy spaces ! The fig can be on top of them...
That a bit of a drawback of 3D Chest. You cannot easily put a dragon on it
That is the main concern with my actual 3D model.

- You need to make a distinction for one special token but a discreet one, because you ofter need not to know which one is the special one I tried several possibilities :
-> a little paper, but with fragile hinges, I was not very happy to open/close then very much.
-> one was a little plastic marble, where I could here it click without opening.... but it clicked when I was placing the token... not very discreet.


-> finally I stuck red sticker on the bottom of one of the chest I felt it satisfying.

- For information, in the Shadow Rune campaign you can have up to 8 search token in the same time !

Concerning familiar token
There is a lot of proxies based on commercial minis (reaper mini, etc.)
I personally made a remix of 3D pieces to make my wolf familiar (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1765110), reanimate (not yet published) and runestone (not yet published).

Concerning villager token : I am very interested in making credible 3D mini for the villager but you have to keep in mind that the same tokens serve several purposes (unarmed villagers, guardsman with ranged attack, guardsman with melee attack).
The best I found for the moment was to use Heroquest special minis that came with removable weapons.




Concerning objective tokens : Those ones are even worse because then can be almost everything, from rocks to altar to lever to friendly general etc.
Considering this I don't know if I would like to play with 3D Token for them (or we should list ALL there usage )

Be sure that I will follow your work closely and don't hesitate to ask for help.

Kind regards,

UrU




 
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Derick Hui
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Hey Uru,

Thanks for the information. I think right now I will be focusing on just the chest and door frame to get started. I don't really intend on the organic character tokens just because of the limitations of my printer and until I can get a SLA printer, I just don't feel it'll have the quality compared to injection molded stuff.

I just finished my first pass on the chest with a test print. Have some refinements to do, but not a terrible first attempt. Still has an issue with it not allowing large models to occupy the space, but there are always the original paper tokens that can be swapped in temporarily. The print time is a concern for me and I'll have to find some ways to make it print a little faster to try to make them a little more economic. Here are some pictures; Let me know what you guys think.




 
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uru uru
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Hi Derick,

I like it ! It look nice and simple, easy to prints and it seems easy to open to see what's inside.

If you want to share your work in progress (public or MP), I can test it on one of our 3 printer at university.

Do you print in 0.4mm ?

I had quite nice result on organic with 0.25mm extruder but not as nice as the original injected stuff.

Do you think you could give a try for a flat top ? Hero and small monster should be able to stand on it too

Regards,
 
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Derick Hui
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Hey Uru,

I actually print usually in 0.3mm. I'll give a flat top a try, but it would mean a really short box. I don't usually share files anymore, mainly because I sell prints on my Etsy shop and I've seen and heard a lot of stories of people having their work being used by 3D print shops there and other sites. It's an extra hassle to go through the legal route on that front. Since I only sell things that I've designed, I try to avoid getting caught up in that situation. I haven't ruled out the idea of sharing files eventually but I'm currently trying to build up my shop. I just need to find a secure way of doing so.

I made some changes to the files so it prints well without supports for the top of the box and I'm looking to seeing if I want to add more detail now or keep it simple. It functions well, but it can't be picked up by the top of it because it holds too loose, but it doesn't rattle. I don't like snap lids since they will wear out eventually. If someone painted it, it would have just enough of a tight fit.
 
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Derick Hui
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Here's the flat top version. It's actually a lot more economical to print. I don't think anything larger than a single tile model would fit on top, but I feel making this box any shorter takes away from the atmosphere it was intended for. The neat part of it is the lid for this one actually fits pretty tight so accidental opening should be a non issue. I'd like to hear a bit of feedback before I make production files for them.

Are 8 chests the max you would see on the board at any given time?

Figuring out the doors this weekend, long as I don't get distracted.

Here are the pictures:


 
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joel siragher
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First apologies for not reading the whole thread.

Ive thought about this. I like the idea of 3d tokens.

But heres the problem. You can move over and land on chests, and villagers, objective tokens. if the item is 3d, unless its completely flat then you cant park on it.

Thoughts? you can yell at me if I missed replies to this earlier in the thread
 
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Derikku wrote:
I don't usually share files anymore, mainly because I sell prints on my Etsy shop and I've seen and heard a lot of stories of people having their work being used by 3D print shops there and other sites. It's an extra hassle to go through the legal route on that front. Since I only sell things that I've designed, I try to avoid getting caught up in that situation. I haven't ruled out the idea of sharing files eventually but I'm currently trying to build up my shop. I just need to find a secure way of doing so.


I totally understand and respect your position. I'm more on the open hardware road myself but If you want to sell these mini, you should probably not share them publicly (what would be your added value over shapeways?).

Another way could be to ask for patrons : you may find X person willing to pay a decent sum for your work to be release publicly.

Regards
 
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Derikku wrote:
Here's the flat top version.


I like the flat version for the possibility to "stack" my small figures on it.

But I have the weird feeling that it is loosing the "fantasy" look the curved on has. It look more "metal" than wood.

Maybe you can try an hexa/octogonal lid :



Or try less "metal barding" (I don't know if I use the word correctly) on the corners.



I counted 8 search tokens in the grand final of Shadow Rune campaign.
Can anyone confirm this for the other campaign ?

Regards,
 
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Derick Hui
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Hey Uru,

I've thought about Shapeways, but I would have to modify some files into sort of sprue structure since individually, they charge way more than what I sell them for of my own prints. It looked somewhere in the range of 3-4 times more than what I sell them for on my Etsy page: https://www.etsy.com/shop/InspiredCraftwork. The patron idea sounds really interesting actually. I'm just not always the best at being social and usually find myself technical minded, so I've never really thought ideas like that through, yet. Something I should think about more.

To be honest, I agree the metal look is a bit pronounced. It was sort of intentional, since I imagined they held valuables so the lockbox style made them seem like where you would look if you were finding loot versus a decrepit box. I thought for a while about adding details and making the box asymmetric to look more rugged, but I wasn't sure if I was able to make it look natural enough at such a small scale. I can still make edits, but was hoping for more feedback from others too. Less barding would read as a very plain 3D print unless you paint, since you on the 2nd picture there, it's two different woods being used, but I don't know how you would imitate that as a print. The top of the flat box is actually 1 print layer difference, so it's as narrow layering as possible with my preferred print settings, but I could make the actual metal bars more narrow if people liked like look.

Also, the hex lid I think would look nice and work just fine if people want that look. My rounded lid used a curved instead of flat sides because I was hoping the print lines would add a bit of “wood texture” to it, but I'm not sure if that look works.


In reply to Joel,

I'm aware that 3D tokens aren't for everyone, or even most people because they can't really ever be 100% convenient because the game wasn't designed for 3D tokens in mind. They're really just for the players that want a more atmospheric feel to the game. I just try to minimize what extra workarounds they would need to do. The easy way would be to just place the original paper token under the chest, since the chest would cover most of it, and then you can just move it out of the way as needed. In the end there's a tradeoff for having a more visual game.
 
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